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Monday, December 17, 2007

The Rodriguez Era Begins

What a weekend.

From the depths of despair for many Michigan fans as the Wolverine coaching searched dragged on almost four whole weeks (which is equivalent to 8.3 years in today's Internet-fueled sports world) to the heights of ecstasy as U-M landed a coach who apparently believes the quarterback is allowed to stray outside the pocket by more than 4 feet (and not just to take a sack).

So, is it a great hire?

It's too early to tell. Just as it would have been impossible 48 hours after the fact to tell if the hiring of Mike DeBord would have been the first sign of the Football Apocalypse. We won't know how good this hire is until about three years down the road.

'Bama fans nearly wept with joy after their school lured Nick Saban to Tuscaloosa. But after a 6-6 season, including a loss to Louisiana-Monroe, now they might just be weeping, period. Pete Carroll was USC's 38th choice when he was hired to coach the Trojans. Southern Cal fans wanted the AD run out of town for picking some failed NFL coach to lead them. The end was near - the end of being average as Carroll returned the team to new found glory. And after Bo Schembechler was hired way back when, the headline of the Detroit Free Press screamed, "Bo Who?" Gee, I didn't know Drew Sharpe was that old.

So while we can be excited, whether or not it was great is yet to be determined.

I will say that our offense is going to be like nothing you've ever seen in A2 before (unless you're talking about Oregon, Syracuse, Appalachian State or any of the other spread offenses that have shredded the Wolverines in recent years). The only problem is, do we have the personnel to run it next season? If Rodriguez tries to reinvent the wheel too soon, well, talk to Husker fans about that one.

I will say that I like the hire better than Miles (who, hopefully, will stop holding press conferences now). From all I've heard, he's a great guy and a good coach. My one nagging concern is his record in big games, which is the main issue many folks had with Carr the last couple of years. West Virginia usually played a non-conference schedule that would make the K-State non-con cupcakes from the Bill Snyder era look like murder's row. Then they duked it out in the still-a-bball-league Big East. Yet they still managed to struggle in key or big games.

This season, the best team from a ranking standpoint they played was 18th ranked South Florida. They lost. They only had to beat 28 point dog Pitt - coached by Dave "Has he EVER had a winning record?" Wannstedt - at home to reach the BCS title game. They lost. Yeah, I know Pat White was hurt. But they were playing 28 point dog Pitt at home - a team coached by Dave Wannstedt! WVU's big wins this season were over Cinci and UConn (yes, in football).

And there are some nagging questions about his defenses. While known for his offenses, stout defense, a Michigan staple (except against teams coached by guys running offenses like Rodriquez), weren't his forte.

So, while I'm optimistic, I'm also realistic. Coach Rod, as he is known, has my full support (except for his nickname. He sounds like a porn star). I sincerely hope this is the genius hire the "sky is falling" crowd thinks it is (who apprently thought Michigan AD Bill Martin was going to pick a name out of a hat containing only Pop Warner youth league coaches once Les Miles didn't work out). Whatever happens, it's going to be fun as hell to watch.

Now only time will tell if that fun translates into something much, much bigger.


Catie said...

My excitement was mainly due to the fact that the search was over, and we will no longer be subjected to the "sky is falling" reaction to every perceived move that Michigan did, or did not make.

He is a good hire, no question about it, and I agree with you 100%, that we won't know if he is a great hire until after a season or two. I also agree that the first season could be a little dicey, since our recruits were meant to fit into a "grind it out" style of play. That will be his first test, to see how flexible he can be with what he has.

I for one, am looking forward to seeing what he can do.


Unknown said...

You're right. . . time will tell. In fact, I'm a little hesitant to post a comment until after the press conference.

Aside from the search finally being over, my excitement is due to Martin NOT hiring DeBord or any other complete failure.

Let's wish RR luck and give him the time he needs to establish himself. Thankfully I wont have to sit in the stands and listen to my mother and any other milkshakes in the stadium calling out our plays before we break huddle.

Catie said...

Daniel, Do I want to know the definition of "Milkshakes?"

Crabapple Buck said...

He is a perfect fit for UM. He already knows how to lose to his rival despite being a heavy favorite and/or he loses one game inexplicably every year. Sounds like UM just hired John Cooper redux.

Catie said...

Well aren't you crabby. We shall see come next November.

Amol said...

Let's not forget what WVU was like BEFORE RR got there. RR took a declining WVU program and simply turned it back around. Not saying that now RR is with us that we'll win every bowl game and always beat Ohio State. I'm just saying--if you're talking about losing the big games, lets look at how RR even put WVU in the position to be competitive in those big games.

I think he'll do a great job at Michigan. He's going to a program that already is an established winner (with a few hiccups here and there). If he has access to all of the clout that comes along with Michigan football, there's no reason that he shouldn't be able to run a high powered team year after year. But I agree, it will take a few years for him to get his system in place. Unless Terrell Pryor decides to follow RR to A2.

Mathew said...

As far as not winning the big game, you've got to remember what he was working with. I imagine it's easier to coach a talented team up against another talented team, than it is a school like WVU against whatever the best the Big East can throw at is (read: not good).

Cowbell Commander said...

Yeah, I agree with what you write. It looks awesome on paper but let's see how it really shakes out before we start naming our children after him!

srudoff said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
srudoff said...


Apparently Rodriguez and his family were pretty busy celebrating his career move this weekend!


TitleIX said...


bush league

TitleIX said...


surrounded in columbus said...

it's streaming audio now. R2 just introduced his OC & Recruiting Coordinator. adios mike debord.

Unknown said...

Just because he lost to Pitt, does that make him a bad coach? I guess Carrol losig to Satnford makes him a bad coach. Or Stoops losing to COlorado makes him a bad coach. I agree, the first year might be a bit dicey, but I'm excited to see what happens. Mallett might be looking for a new home. My 3 wishes:
1. Mcguffie.
2. New S&C program.
3. while I'm wishing, Tyrelle Pryor.

TitleIX said...

mmmmmmmm R2

surrounded in columbus said...

BTW- Yost, i agree that this is a good hire. no such thing as a "perfect" hire, but he's as good, at this point, as it gets. he's also pretty engaging on camera.

however, i also still maintain that Bill Martin did a poor job of dealing w/ Miles & Shiano, and most importantly, a poor job w/ the media.

that said, all's well that end's well. the doctor says i can stop taking the xanax now. the puppy still gets cookies, though.

Feelin' Blue said...

So does this mean that we're not getting Les Miles? I think we might still have a shot. We'll see what impact this has on negotiations.

beast in 'bama said...

Meet the Rodriguez family:

Dad - Rich
Mom - Rita
Daughter - Raquel
Son - Rhett


TitleIX said...

he's jus' a good ol' boy.....

surrounded in columbus said...

i was actually born in WVa (never actually lived there but grew up in Appalachia). the use of the same letter for the first names is very smart- saves on monograming, makes hand me downs easier to use, and makes it easier to guess names at family reunions.

only tricky part is finding a spouse w/ the same correct first name.

beast in 'bama said...

sic: "only tricky part is finding a spouse w/ the same correct first name"

Isn't that a requirement for the arranged marriage?

surrounded in columbus said...

not always. sometimes it can be easy (especially if you find someone @ a family reunion).

whetstonebuck said...


That was so bad. I'm still laughing.

jackscrow said...

Buckeyes were praying for Miles.

We'll see if the "Rodster" can coach "student atheletes" who, in some cases, can actually read and write. Most of the guys he got at WVU, couldn't get into MU, no matter what Harbaugh says.

He may have to change his recruiting practices -- he's not used to this much scrutiny.

carl tabb said...

I think we missed the sheer genius of feelin blue's post. I'll acknowledge the hilarity. Good show.

Breaston154LIFE said...

Good Stuff...watched his press conference, I like his personality, very outgoing. With talk of Tyrelle Pryor adding Michigan to his list of school, we'll just have to see if he comes. If he does come, there'll be a QB controversy with Ryan Mallett who is the heir apparent to Chad Henne and that fits Carr's prototype, and Pryor who fits Rodriguez's offensive philosophy. So if Pryor comes...
1) They'll use a two QB system
2) Pryor will red-shirt
3) Mallett will transfer

but I'm jumping wayyyy ahead

Buck said...

I'm not particularly psyched about this Rodriguez fellow and kind of worried.
If you have ever caught a Thrusday night Big East game on ESPN you will have noticed that no one in that conference (much less the champs, WVU) can tackle.
Also, WVU has produced its fair share of dubious characters over the last few years, i.e. Pacman Jones and Co. Whether that is a reflection of Rodriguez is unknown but still does not bode well.
And finally, this looks like a mercenary hire, which I hoped Michigan would avoid. He gave one of those vehement don't-ask-me-about-that press conferences. Then, of course he's the new Michigan coach and won't even be coaching his team in their BCS Bowl. Lloyd is coaching the Capital One, why can't Rod coach the Fiesta?
I am always wary of coaches who pull that move because what if he has a few good seasons then bolts to the pros at the first sniff of an attractive offer that comes along? Seems like Rod is the kind to leave us high and dry.
And something tells me he wouldn't be jumping at this opportunity if his Mountaineers hadn't blown that game against Pitt. I bet he would be coaching in that BCS bowl game.

Breaston154LIFE said...

johnny why are you raining on our parade? come on now

Mr. Callaham said...


Jeff said...

Every coach loses the occasional game that they are supposed to win, and speaking of big games, didn't WVU beat Georgia in the Sugar Bowl a couple years ago? Mind you, he's accomplished all of this with recruiting classes that have never sniffed the top 25 nationally.

Fear the Rod, Bucknuts.

Buck said...

Didn't mean to rain on the parade, sorry about that. I'm just a little cautious. As long as he wins ball games and operates with the same sense of dignity and class Lloyd did, he'll be alright.

SA said...

Well said Yost.

DaBraylon17 said...

to all the haters who think RR will not have success (mainly OSU fans), you're either an idiot or a homer (prolly both). OSU fans now believe they are invincible against UM as long as good ole Jimmy is their coach. i love this actually because victory will be so much sweeter when it happens.

Feelin' Blue said...

Do not guarantee anything. johnny is partly right: we don't know how RR does in big games. Can he outmaneuver Tressel's defense? Will RR have a good D in Ann Arbor? (I really hope he keeps Ron English and several others--maintain continuity and make transition easier for current UM players.)

I personally wanted Craig Bohl at NDSU. He's proved that he can win big by beating I-A teams even as his team was transitioning from D-II to I-AA. He's an excellent coach who will win championships. (NDSU currently cannot play in the FBS playoffs because of NCAA regulations on teams switching divisions.)

surrounded in columbus said...

strange but true aside- in the weeks preceding the conference championship games, wvu-pitt, etc., most of the tosu fans i know were counting on OU to beat Mizzou and more less cringing at having to play Pat "i run even faster than juice williams" White and saying how they'd much rather play lsu. similarly, since that, the same crowd has expressed relief at dodging a fast spread option and their optimism towards playing lsu.

upon running into/talking to many of those same fans yesterday, most seemed more than a little dismayed that R2 was headed to A2.


Feelin' Blue said...

I've been nasty about Lloyd. I'm sure most of us have. I'm going to miss him. It is time for him to move on, but he's a class act. It's sad to see that the older generation of coaches are on their way out (Paterno, Carr).

Another concern of mine: I personally liked the pro-style offense; it just wasn't run well. I like the old-school feel, and I really like how Michigan produces great pro players. Hopefully Michigan will continue to produce great NFL players.

Unknown said...

Congrats again on the hiring of coach RR! But here are some things to consider about an option spread offense in a major BCS conference.

To my knowledge there are a handful of college teams currently running the offense in some shape or form. Oregon,Florida,Illinois and WV being the main players.

Injury update: Oregon QB blows out knee, out for season. Florida QB ends season w/ a broken wrist, (still wins Heisman). WVU & Illinois QB nagging injuries all year, have trouble finishing games.

True Florida wins NC, but Tebow was not the starter and played limited downs.

And if you want to throw LSU in there, had to play w/ back-up QB at end of season also.

Can the QB stay healthy in this offense in a major conference?

Just throwing this out, I may be wrong!!!!

Go bucks! Go blue(beat them gators)

Nate said...

I am a WVU alum and fan and I'm honestly not that upset that RR is leaving. He's a good coach but not the great coach that you guys want to believe he is. The complaint with Carr was that he was predictable, well the WVU fans complaint with RR is that he's too predictable. QB read, QB read, bubble screen, punt or first down, repeat. That's what you'll be getting from RR. Not to mention not much defense, unless he ditches that 3-3-5 stack crap. Also you mention the big games that he lost this year, but that's only the beginning of it. Last year he lost to Louisville and then South Florida at home (which would have given us the BCS game over Louisville). The only big game he's ever won was the Sugar Bowl against Georgia and we jumped on them early and then he hung on for dear life. Before that we had been embarrassed for three straight bowl games (combined score of 119-47) and were no better than an 8-4 team. As much as has been said for his judgement of talent, Pat White and Steve Slaton got into the game only b/c of injuries to the players RR had starting. Once they got in WVU took off and he became the "genius."

I know WVU fans are pissed, as I am, but its mainly due to the way he left and handled the whole situation rather than that he's leaving. His memory here is going to be losing to a horrible Pitt team at home at night to keep us out of the National Championship game. He may be great at Michigan if given the time, but I wouldn't get my hopes up too high.

beast in 'bama said...

Vince Young, Texas Longhorns - 2005 National Champions.

Unknown said...


I really do not believe that was a spread option offense! Spread maybe, but was no option. Vince Young would run on broken plays! There is a difference!

Feelin' Blue said...

Fine, I'll say it. I hate the spread offense. It's a new offense that has no use in the NFL and from what I understand, just takes advantage of the inexperience of college DBs. I think that there is no great genius in calling options and runs. Then again, I don't know enough about football; I have never coached nor played, except on playstation.

I think that a pro-style offense can be better if made to work well, and it can be used with any type of player. That there is a serious possibility that a great 5-star recruit such as Ryan Mallett might have to transfer after one year at Michigan is ridiculous, IMO. Someone please explain why I am wrong. (No arrogance intended: I really might be wrong!)

Also, Mallett ran the shotgun spread in high school. So yeah, the mobile QB adds a new dimension to the game, but don't forget about PASSING!

Feelin' Blue said...

I'm already wrong! The Patriots use a version of the spread offense. Still, I don't think that it really prepares college QBs for the NFL. Vince Young and Donovan Warren could be exceptions.

TitleIX said...

we don't really live in a binary world folks.

think happy thoughts about a blended spread with some pro-style offense, a QB who can read/run/pass and some bad ass backs and TEs to round out the mix.

OOOOHHHHHH, I smile just imagining it!!!
(ok, maybe more, but now that joshua has his girl....it's all PG)

Greg said...

Feelin blue, you should be worried. Michigan runs a great pro style offense that gets kids ready for the nfl, even if you don't win a NC the players still know that nfl teams like the system. RR spread, not to many players drafted, Chris Henry, and he was a late rounder. Be afraid, and please blue alum, look at proyer's level of competition.

Catie said...

Ack, I have had meeting all day, missed the presser, have more meetings, and I just want to see the stud RR in his presser, find out who he is bringing with him, etc, etc. *sigh*

Joshua said...

Some things to chew on:

1.In 1998, with Rodriguez as offensive coordinator, Tulane averaged more than 300 yards passing and 200 yards rushing per game for an entire season.

2. In his first years at Glenville St they threw the ball 50-60 times a game. (I think Mallett will be alright. The concept of him in the shotgun winging it all over? Hallelujah. You don't get where Rod is without having some level of intelligence, and he'd be an idiot to not utilize Ryan.)

3. According to Superprep, Rod has never had a class above 26th. Wow. With the kind of talent he'll have access to here? No more looking too slow. Bring on the SEC, the Pac 10, and the Bucks. The more I read, the more I see, the more excited I get. Is it August yet?

Joshua said...

Don't jinx me! Nothing's been accomplished yet, just got the number and hung out for a few hours. And it's not like I'm buying a ring, though if things go correctly I might buy her breakfast. :P

TitleIX said...

dude, if you play your cards right she'll COOK you breakfast.
bon suerte
oh, and a shout out for the TROJANS

girls have cooties. ;0)

Feelin' Blue said...

Greg, keep in mind that WVU doesn't attract talent like Michigan does. We'll see if UM players will be ready for the NFL under RR's system. Hopefully they'll come out of Michigan as good people too!

We'll see how smart RR is, and how he manages his resources. who knows? Maybe he'll reinvent the spread offense with a new version that has elements of the pro-style, as T-9 hopes?

I'm worried, yet hopeful at the same time. I would rather have Craig Bohl, who has more to prove and is willing to do it, but RR is supposed to be great. Sporting News ranked him the 3rd best BCS coach (that list was rather outrageous though). SN also said that he is one of 5 BCS coaches who are the best and X-and-O-ing.

For now, we have to wait until Sept. But lets focus on the Citrus Bowl for now. The players definitely should, and this might be a distraction. Maybe they'll be more motivated to win one for Carr?

Joshua said...


Safety boy heard.

Greg said...

How many spread offensive players have been drafted on the first day?

BajanBlu said...

Watching some vid's on WV station WBOY.com. Um,.... is somebody gonna give his wife a makeover before we let her don any Michigan gear? Please?

Joshua said...

Let's see....if your goal is to put players in the pros we've already done that. My goal would be to WIN GAMES and not look like a bunch of retarded monkeys humping a football whenever it comes time to play tOSU, anyone in a bowl, or anyone taking snaps who looks like he might remotely have a vague notion of running. Would you rather be able to say we have the most starting qbs in the NFL over the past 20 years, or be playing in our third NC game ala the Sweatervest?

Catie said...

Go Joshua!!!! (be nice to her!!)

Ok, so from what I can read in the brief amount of time that I have available, RR is bringing half of his staff with him. (woot!) It appears that we will retain 2 that I feel good about (Jackson and Loeffler (sp?) )

This is looking mighty fine to me, I couldn't locate the presser though, anyone know if it is up anywhere? I will keep looking, hopefully later I will get a chance to sit down and read every word!!

Greg said...

Do you think Sweatervest is going to tell recruits that you won't make the nfl playing in that system?

Joshua said...

Katie, I'm always a gentlemen, right up to the point where she requests my not being. Usually loudly, with lots of references to a certain deity. And lest we forget, my frequent auditions (read: man-whorishness) are simply a necessary part of me trying to find my soul mate. A hot, smart, hair-pulling, sex-crazed soul mate.

What is your goal? To put people in the NFL or win games? Tress might use that argument, but if we're winning kids will want to come here. RR has built an offense based around the players he has been able to recruit everywhere he's been. Were you happy sending guys to the league and losing 6 of 7 to OSU? If so I think we might have a different definition of the word "success".

Unknown said...

The recruits of today know what systems will get them to the NFL. They know more about the rosters of the schools they are interested in going to than most of the fans do. Recruits know how to use the internet also!

According to scouts.com, Coach RR recruiting class for "07 was ranked 18th while Pitt had a class ranked 8th.

Most top recruits want to play for and in a system that will allow them to advance to the next level. These kids see college football as a job interview/OJT. Recruits know what programs and systems offer this.

While the spread option attack is fun for fans, and puts plenty of touchdowns on the scoreboard, top notch recruits are not interested in this style! A style that brings w/it an increased risk of season ending injuries!

What scares me is this offense still is not a proven one at this level of football. I think the defenses are to hard hitting to allow QB's to run around the field taking hard punishing hits over and over.

I hope I am wrong, for the love of college football, the Big 10, and the best rivalry game ever, I hope I am wrong!

surrounded in columbus said...

ah, sweatervest ran an version of the spread for 3 yrs w/ t.smith. i doubt it hurt recruiting.

he's also recruiting Pryor heavily. doubt that switzer is telling him anything bad about being a mobile qb or the negatives of a spread option offense.

second, while @ wvu, R2's spread featured a read option w/ a running qb, it's very adaptable to passing qb. R2 was OC @ Tulane when Shaun King was QB. they put up some stellar passing stats.

this style of offense is adaptable to the personnel you have. the read option is only one facet.

Greg said...

Josh, was it the system that made them lose to OSU or bad coaching? Old tressy knows how to coach and carr couldn't adjust, and from what I've seen RR doesn't adjust well. Also, Michigan plays more that just OSU. RR never had highly regarded recruiting classes even though Wanny has been with losing records. Since when is a 10 win season every year bad?

TitleIX said...

mgoblue.com, over on the right side you should be able to stream the entire presser. HOPEFULLY with the missing sound. although all you really miss is BM spouting about something or another

re: mamma rod--agree about the northern make-over, but then again, I thought you guys like that hot blonde with long-nails thing????

and finally, I am happy to report that the lights have been on LATE into the evening over at the Football complex. They are working to be sure.
Heck, maybe Lloyd will ask R2 for some 'trickeration'???????

Mangino said...

I am hungry.

Caleb said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joshua said...

"Since when is a 10 win season every year bad?"

I wouldn't know as we haven't had them. In fact, unless you can find a way for a win versus Florida to count for 2 wins, we will not have had them in 5 of the past 8 years. And in two of those years we lost our third and fourth game of the season (respectively), effectively ruining any chance we had at a National Championship. So once again I ask you, what is your goal, to put players in the league or win games?

As for the coaching, it's clear that the Sweatervest has out-coached not only Lloyd but his staff as well. Perhaps I'm crazy, but trying something different seems like it might work a little better than what we've been doing.

Anonymous said...

this style of offense is adaptable to the personnel you have. the read option is only one facet.

Which is why I'm not ready to say sayonara to Mallet yet. Mallet isn't Shaun King, but he isn't Navarre slow either.

Mallet is still a traditional deep threat and from the shotgun (where he is familiar) give him 3, 4 wideouts and watch defensive coordinators start to sweat. Mallet can roll out of either side out of the pocket too! Of course, Pryor would be nice but I think Mallet still has a place on this team.

Speaking of defensive coordinators, any word on English yet?

Joshua said...

Hot blonde with long nails thing? Not so much. You're thinking of the Neanderthals who drool over Pamela Anderson. Brunettes baby, brunettes are where its at. And Redheads. And blondes, too, if you must know, but classy.

Joshua said...

Rumor has it RR's bringing in his DC. Wish we could snag someone like Tenuta instead, but it looks like Coach Rod is committed to the 3-3 stack.

beast in 'bama said...


Speaking as a Texas fan, I happen to know that the offense run by the Longhorns in '05 was a variation of the spread option called the zone read. In fact, the majority of VY's rushing yardage came on the same play that WVU runs with Pat White.

Greg said...

I ask you, do you expect an undefeated NC every year? Please wake up!!

Unknown said...

That is true! But I guess I was wrong. Sorry. Running one play over and over is a variation on the spread option.

Greg said...

Also, do you think Nebraska wishes it still could complain about "only winning 9-10 games"? How did Calihan work out?

Joshua said...

You answered my question with a question. I will answer your question with a statement, as is common among those with a valid argument they choose to set forth.

Do I expect a shot at a National Championship yearly? Yes. We should rarely lose before we play OSU. Do I expect to not perennially underachieve? Yes. Do I expect our team to be prepared and not lose games they should win? Yes. If tOSU can do it, why can't we? Wake up? I'm awake dude. You're the one stuck in a romanticized version of what we've had over the past ten years.

And you still haven't answered my question.

Joshua said...

"Also, do you think Nebraska wishes it still could complain about "only winning 9-10 games"? How did Calihan work out?"

And this is pertinent to our situation how? If it comes to that please feel free to bring this argument in three years. Conjecture and fear mongering do not count as valid arguments. If you'd like I could point you to a tutorial on the composition of a valid argument so as you stop embarrassing yourself.

beast in 'bama said...

Example asked, example given. Anything else you need to know?

Breaston154LIFE said...

Wow, already complaning about Coach Rod, god sakes, we were all just complaining about us not having a coach yet, now we get a high profile coach, and the fans are starting to complain about how him using a spread/option wont bring in the recruits...Are you kidding me? The same fans were just talking about how Lloyd Carr's predictablilty was old, dry, stale, etc..now rich rodriguez might bring in new fresh things, and people r complaining...wow

Breaston154LIFE said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joshua said...

Yeah Breaston, I really enjoy the intelligent conversation that goes on around here, but some people just can't be helped. Fuckin' idiots. I have no tolerance for Stupid.

Greg said...

Thanks professor, seems I hit a nerve, the worst michigan season since '95 is 7-5. I want Michigan to win games AND have players drafted. I do not want to turn into Hawaii. They win lots of games so is that what you want? Please inlighted the world genious. You are right about everything, the rest of the world should bow down to you.

Feelin' Blue said...


Complaining already? I'm already planning the Fire-Rich-Rodriguez site! It will be


Say that 5 times fast.

And to the MSU fans here, just try saying it twice.

Breaston154LIFE said...

that was pretty nice feelin' blue i have to admit.

But also, I'm not saying Rich will be the greatest coach to ever be at Michigan, but he also might be. Just give him a chance, the 2008 season could go awfully well or awfully bad, or mediocre. I'm sure if the worse happens, alot of fans will be saying that Bill Martin rushed the process, that he should have taken his time finding coach, because obviously a coach who runs a completely different offense then what Michigan has ever seen should definitely had gone 13-0 the first year he coaches.

But again like i've been doing all day, I'm jumping way ahead.

Joshua said...

"Thanks professor, seems I hit a nerve, the worst michigan season since '95 is 7-5."

Yes it is. Do you have a point or are you throwing out random facts?

"I want Michigan to win games AND have players drafted. I do not want to turn into Hawaii. They win lots of games so is that what you want?"

Finally an answer. And yes, I would prefer to win "lots of games", or maybe you could explain how that would be detrimental to the program? Is winning no longer the desired outcome? Am I missing something here? As for Hawaii, isn't their QB ranked as the 5th best NFL QB prospect? Once again, your argumentative logic escapes me.

"Please inlighted the world genious."

Are you trying to look like a complete idiot or is it just a natural ability you have? I believe the words you are searching for are "Enlighten" and "Genius".

"You are right about everything, the rest of the world should bow down to you."

I never claimed to be right about everything, I merely seek intelligent discourse about a subject I am extremely passionate about. If 7-5 is good enough for you, so be it. I for one prefer excellence over mediocrity. That having been said, if you have a valid argument that furthers the discussion on this board please present it. Otherwise please quit embarrassing yourself- it's getting pathetic.

Catie said...

Thanks T9, I am listening to the audio stream.....I would much rather see hmmmm....RR, but the voice will have to do with a still photo :P

I like what he is saying. Be who he is, go for it baby!

surrounded in columbus said...

first, "new"things are always (well, almost always) fun & exciting. after 13 years of grandpa moses, i think most M fans under the age of 60 are looking forward to cutting loose and seeing something different (and hopefully better).

R2 is perfect for this on first sight. his WVU teams are generally fun to watch. he's young, personable, funny, and direct. he's seen the lion king. probably doesn't sail or read much irish poetry. it's different.

second, he has real on the field upside. the last 5 or 7 seasons have all had disappointments/let downs. no doubt the next 5 or 7 will likely, too. the difference should be that we repeated the same mistakes over the last 7 years, again and again. i'll guess that whatever comes the next 7, it won't be a matter of trying to "execute" the same stretch to the left on first down. the fuck ups will be new and different. we'll lose games in wholly unthought of ways. even that'll be fun (in an oddly stoic, acknowleging that we're going to lose some games anyway so why not make those interesting, sorta way?).

finally, having lost 3 or more games in 6 of the last 7 seasons, next year will be fun to at least anticipate. yeah, there will some growing pains w/the new scheme and coaches. but this isn't Nebraska trying to run a now outdated pro style '80's offense that had never been successfully adopted to the college game. just the opposite. this is a game plan that has been used all over the country by big & small schools, and w/ some tweaking, the pros, very successfully.

and yeah, the D is still a question,but a tricky one. the spread offense was developed for smaller schools to make up for talent gaps across 11 players. no one's ever really developed a defensive equivalent. maybe that's because charlie weiss hasn't tried yet (that's a "genius" joke for those not paying close attention), or maybe it's because defense may be much more dependant on individual talent. hard to imagine Ray Lewis or Brian Urlacher in their prime not being effective in any formation.

besides, our old scheme ain't so hot, anyway. certainly can't stop the spread. i no these are famous last words, but given our overall D performance since 2003? how much worse can it really be?

and for my "friends" out there? yes. they've taken me off the meds and i'm feeling cantankerous again. still get a little quesy when i see cruise ads on tv w/ sailboats in the background, but feeling much better generally.

puppy says: "hi katie".

Avi B. said...

I think what he's trying to say that is basically that in running a spread offense, we'll be perceived as a "system" offense that
- doesn't develop players for the pro-style offenses/defenses they'll see in the NFL
- hurts us in the eyes of poll voters who see our offense as gimmicky

Keep in mind, just about every quarterback since Harbaugh has played in the NFL, and Michigan does pretty well for itself in representation in the pros.

3-3-5 stack (?!) and option-reads (see Jets-Pats game yesterday) are a joke in the NFL and rooks from Michigan will spend at least a year un-learning all that crap.

RR could very well excel with his new offense, but I don't think Michigan's offense is broken, it just needs new strength-and-conditioning along with a dynamic offensive coordinator and coach.

Oklahoma does pretty well for itself without the spread, and even if it loses a game to an occasional Texas Tech run-n'-gun offense, it'll put more players in the pros and get a more legit shot at a title or bowl games at the end of the day.

Good luck to Rodriguez, but people seem wayyy too optimistic about his chances.

Catie said...

Waves to Sic and puppy --------->

Glad you are off the meds!!

But don't take the cookies away from the puppy just yet!

Breaston154LIFE said...

I don't know if Rodriguez is bringing his defensive coordinator with him. I would personally like to see Ron English stay. I know that so far his offensive coordinator and defensive backs coach are coming with him. I feel sorry for Vance Bedford because he had just came back and now he will be replaced but Coach Rod's man.

Joshua said...

I guess once again it gets down to what you're looking for in a program. I prefer to win, and while it's nice having guys in the pros I don't see those two things as being mutually exclusive. RR will have access to recruits and talent that he never would have had at WV, Clemson, etc. Who's to say he doesn't modify his play calling?

I for one look forward to losing in new and unusual ways. Our old style of losing was just played out and stale.

Joshua said...

It's be nice to see English stay, yes.

Joshua said...

Look at it like this: The development of his offense was based on the talent he had. Now he has a chance at the best kids in the nation every year. Isn't it encouraging to know we have a guy who invented an offense based on what he had, and now he can have pretty much whatever he wants? What do you think he'll come up up with? I, for one, think it'll be interesting to see.

Breaston154LIFE said...

I am definitely excited to see what is to come next and further on with him at the helm. It will be interesting to see how he will build the offense around Ryan Mallett. Lets face it, he's not a Pat White at all, but not a Chad Henne either.

surrounded in columbus said...

you nailed it EXACTLY. i don't think there's way too much enthusiasm here OTHER than that for a change.

and we're going to get a ton of that.

that, by itself, is worth celebrating.

Greg said...

Clearly you do not want excellence or you just have never watched WVU under RR. The spelling was on purpose sorry you didn't figure that out. As far as I can tell you just want to win every game, every year with a coach that has proven that he cannot win even with superior talent. Yes I know, nfl teams are just stacked with Hawaii player. Also, please continue to attack me personally thats the best way to debate a subject.

Breaston154LIFE said...

i think greg is getting a little testy but o well, I might be a fool to say this but I don't think 100% of the Michigan fan base thinks for the next 5 years we are going undefeated or anything. We should all know there are going to be growing pains.

TitleIX said...

boys boys boys

while I love to debate the nuances of spread offenses, big ten smash mouth clouds of dust, and NFL hybrids, the truth of the matter is THE GUY JUST GOT HIRED

and no one has yet played a down in his 'new' scheme. So all your puffing at one another is pure speculation and air. (although NOT fire-breathing like the real Puff, who is now safely stored until the bowl game)

Honestly, 90% of success is just showing up. SOOO, if the talented athletes show up in a well-thought out and well-executed scheme the wins will follow, AS WILL the Big Ten Championships, the BCS bowl victories, and the NCs. Which will then get the players DRAFTED. Repeat.

We'll never be a Hawaii because we actually play highly ranked, major conference teams.
Kids are going to come here because we're Michigan. Period. And yes, I'm arrogant about that. Tough shit.

When R2 and the Men in Blue start mixing it up and racking up yardage and points and wins and accolades THEN we can talk about whether or not we want wins, NFL draft picks, or championships. Or, E, ALL OF THE ABOVE.
Until then, let's get ready to talk about how badly Florida is going to kill us and what all we should do in the game but what we are actually going to do and blah blah blah.

If I'm R2, I get my tail up here to A2 and watch C2 prepare the team for the bowl game. I act like a sponge around the kids and the program and soak up all the 411 I can, without having any of the responsibility. I'd be Lloyd's little grasshappa.

Life is goooood in Ann Arbor.
Feel the love???

surrounded in columbus said...

Since you are not keen for R2,
Enlighten us then- who was your pick for head coach?

Joshua said...

Dude you crack me up. RR has had nowhere near the type of talent he'll be able to recruit to Ann Arbor. Winning with superior talent? WTF are you talking about? And of course I would like to win every game every year- who wouldn't?

As far as personal attacks, i was attacking your ability to form a coherent argument which is something you have still failed to do. Could you please explain what it is exactly you would like to see? Did you want us to keep Lloyd? Were you a Les Miles supporter? I don't understand what your arguments are other than cryptic facts and misrepresentations of what I say.

surrounded in columbus said...

Would never presume to question your understanding of adolescent male behavior, but what part of our immature arguing over sports, women, or music do you find surprising or actually hope to change?

whetstonebuck said...

Regarding all of this "superior talent" RR will have at Michigan:

The Ohio legislature just passed a stealth law. Michigan schools are banned from recruiting in Ohio. You know what that means. The well has run dry.

Let it be written; let it be done.

Ha, ha. (doing the Snoopy dance)

Oh, don't bother looking it up. It's stealth, baby.

Joshua said...

You know me, I just don't do Stupid well. Well formed arguments that may help expand my thinking, sure. But to assume we're gonna become a gimmick offense is ludicrous.

Joshua said...

Be afraid Whets. Be very afraid.

Breaston154LIFE said...

now whets, why would you want to be greedy?

surrounded in columbus said...

Sleep on the top of the dog house/Sopwith Camel, do you?

Serious misconception about recruiting- michigan gets about, both quanity & quality, of players out pof ohio as it has historically. Morgan Trent, Crable, Manningham, just a sampling of buckeye starters on this year's squad. Switzter/sweater hasn't kept many, if any, more kids in ohio than cooper or bruce (maybe even less than bruce). He has accomplished more w/ them, & certainly made more of a point of broadcasting it, but the numbers aren't much different.
Every year there's a handful of kids who skip tosu, or tosu snubs (ryan brewer & brady quinn amongst them) who end up being somewhat successful somewhere else.

Feelin' Blue said...

Anyone hear about Dantonio's warm welcome to RR? It was even more heartwarming to hear Dantonio speak about his own transition from the Big East, how he wishes RR the best in his own, and how happy he is to be joined in the Big 10 by his former Big East rival.

Oh, wait. That didn't happen.

Ok, I don't expect Dantonio to roll out the welcome mat, and I do understand that he's getting his team ready for the bowl game, but it would be classy to say some nice things. Kind of like the "school up north" comments by one coach Hayes, but more personal and even more classless. But you know what, Mark Dantonio? Woody Hayes you ain't.

Tressel, much to his credit, has class in public. (In private he kills kittens.)

whetstonebuck said...


Courage is fear that has said its prayers. I'm prayed up and unafraid.

Then again, some say it takes intelligence to know when to be afraid--fools rushing in and all that.

I ain't skeered...just slow.


Greedy? No brother, we are just concerned for the welfare of these young athletes.

whetstonebuck said...


I have cursed the Red Baron and lived to tell the tale.

Good to see you in the fray.

Joshua said...

Touche Whets. Good quote btw.

Breaston154LIFE said...

yah whets i agree with joshua

Catie said...

Ok, I love the R2 in A2 bit! Did Sic coin that?

My laptop has to spend the night at the Apple Store ;o( I am lonely without my laptop....LOL

TitleIX said...

One of my ex's put his youngest brother in a cardboard box (with a football helmet on for safety, of course) and pushed him down the stairs in it. Indoor bobsledding or some such nonsense.
Hilarious story from adolescent boys BUT
Not so funny, overall....cuz it's only fun til someone pokes an eye out ;-)

seriously, love you guys!

where have you been hiding????
hope you are well and that you know that this blogger welcomes your wit, albeit sooo misguided in favor of that "school" in c-bus

TitleIX said...

no way Katie

R2 in A2 is mine all mine!!!

followed adeptly by C2, I might add.

hate it when the men get credit for my great ideas :-}

BajanBlu said...

With all the hoopla this weekend did anyone else happen to notice that tosu contested (and lost) their third national championship in '07?
(Soccer for those of you who weren't paying attention).

So yes, we can smirk b/c they lost AGAIN, but the point is they went to the dance. Their AD has apparently made them a contender in a sport that arguably the entire state population cares absolutely nothing about. But soccer is the world's game, and I smell a master plan here.

I think its time we give the football coach thing a rest, at least until we have some actual results to argue about, and get busy with the GetRidofMartin.com campaign. We've been focused on the bathwater, but the whole damn bathroom needs a reno.

Catie said...

Well damn it. When I was at the apple store, I logged on and said "I love the R2 to A2, T9 is one clever babe!" (NO shit, I did! Then when I got home, it was not here, and I was reading the posts and I thought I saw that Sic said it.....so I went with that.

I shall repeat! T9 is one clever babe! :o)

Catie said...

I am not a fan of Martin, however, he did get a sweet upgrade to the stadium through and he did get us one of the best coaches in the land. So, we may just want to give him a moment of appreciation, rather than run his ass out of town. Just a thought.

Breaston154LIFE said...

lol yah let's run Martin's ass out of town even though he landed us a high profile coach. Maybe he is getting his act together...possibly? maybe?

BajanBlu said...


I think Carr was right when he said "you don't seek the job, the job seeks you". Call me one of the arrogant wolverine types but I believe that this is not just a marquee football program, but a marquee school that is top ten in just about everything it does.

Martin did not "get" us a coach, so much as not screw it up as badly as it looked like he might. This was not a job he had to sell. Anyway what I'm suggesting is that there is more going on here than just football, and yes we can give him 24hours of thanks before we start kicking his ass to earn the rest of his money.

Everybody said Tressel owned Carr, but I say that Martin is rapidly becoming Gene Smith's bitch.

whetstonebuck said...

"Call me one of the arrogant wolverine types..."


You are an arrogant wolverine type.

I am nothing, if not obedient.

Joshua said...

T-9, I'll make sure to credit you with the idea when she's making me breakfast.

Joshua said...

So....is there a line on our game yet? And how about the OSU game? Daddy needs a new pair of shoes.

Joe said...

As a Bama fan, I am still excited about Saban being our head coach. Sure, this season was up and down. But it was Saban's 1st year...and it's not like we lost to a 1-AA school or anything.

Saban has shown he can build good programs. And he will do so with Bama.

Joshua said...

And some hot newscaster sent Rich Eisen bikini pics?? How did I miss this when it happened? (Other than that whole being pickled in rum and laying on the beach for 8 months thing.) Rich Eisen? Really?!

Joshua said...

And welcome Joe. I certainly hope for your sake this isn't true....

Hahaha Ha Ha Ha Ha Haha. Ha. Saban. West Virginia. Ha

Joe said...

No, it's not true. There were a bunch of rumors and such like that that "Saban is going to LSU when Miles leaves for UM" There were even rumors of Saban going to UM! The barners went to just about every forum of schools that had an opening and did the whole "Saban to..." thing. I got a feeling that will do that every year while Saban is here.

Also, Sexton is the agent for both Fischer and Terry Bowden...hell, Sexton is the agent for just about every coach!

Feelin' Blue said...

"But it was Saban's 1st year...and it's not like we lost to a 1-AA school or anything."

You're right, Joe. Instead you lost to a shitty UL-Monroe team that would have gotten smoked by App St. (I know, I know. We should have beat them.)

Feelin' Blue said...

No way! Look, I know Saban is a sleazeball, but he's staying at Bama. He's not THAT sleazy. Besides, he would end up getting paid much less at WVU.

Look, I feel for Bama fans. It's a great tradition. It had one of the best coaches ever. The past few years must have been brutal. And losing 6 straight to Auburn? And I thought it sucked to be a Michigan fan. (Hopefully the suckiness will end next November.)

IamCris said...

Where to start now that it's almost finished...

Katie, you can watch the full presser at bigtennetwork.com

dev4bucks, yes actually Troy Smith (stayed healthy) just did this not more than one year ago (shame on you, you're a buckeye fan?) Aside from Vince Young already being mentioned.

Greg, though you've taken a beating here but Callahan tried to morph an option team into a west coast team. No wr's and no QB to run his show. R2/A2 has experience...actually been running a variation of the spread for over 16 years now...some pass, some run...it'll be ok. No worries, just passing it on.

This is a great forum to learn things and share things, not all of us know everything about everything. I think it's safe to say we're all pretty passionate about Michigan football or we wouldn't be spending time here. Having said that, I look forward to almost daily getting comic relief/reading the clever banter exchanged here amongst ourselves or from our rivals.

IamCris said...

Also, I could be wrong, but that oddball 3-3-5 stack finished 4th in the nation in defense this year. Just sayin.

Kinda feel like we owe good ol' West Virginia something, my gawd we've taken almost everything from them Hillbillies except the state flower (satellite tv dish...outdated joke)

Country roads, take me home
to a place where I belong
West Virginia, mountain momma
take me home, country roads.

Anonymous said...

I was wondering how long it would take before the UL-Monroe reference came out?

I too saw tOSU lose the College Cup. They had the lead late and gave up the last two goals.

Some tOSU hack decided to put his boot in this kids face. Check out the scar over his left eye, snakes across his nose, dips under his right eye, and shows a missing chunk out of his cheek. Of course it looked worse when there was blood everywhere.

Probably doesn't feel any pain holding that NC trophy either.

Anonymous said...

I was listening to a bit of Cowherd this morning. He tried to slam Michigan but couldn't. His take for all these years is U of M has incredible talent but didn't develop it under Carr. That take is moot for a while with RR in town.

He was saying that WVU should be grateful to RR becuase at the very least, WVU is getting a $12 M payday out of this -- so they should be happy for the facilities that will fund.

But... I'm not sure if I agree with Colin's math. First off, Beilein didn't pay the full buyout and his money went to some association connected to the school, not directly into the athletic department nor general fund. Who is to say RR will have to pony up the full $4 M and any money that is paid, where will it go?

Second, does WVU get the full $8M from their BCS game or do they have to split it equally with the conference?

Joe said...

It's funny reading a UM fan try to talk smack about Bama's season.

"You lost to ULM!" Yeah, well at least ULM is in the SAME division as Bama. Things could have been worse. I mean, we could have been number 5 in the country and lost to a 1-AA team. 1-AA. At home.

"You have lost to Auburn 6 times in a row!" Yeah, well you guys have not faired so well against your biggest rival either. What, has UM lost to OSU 4 times in a row? 5 Times in a row?

Pot meet kettle.

Joe said...

Sleaze ball coach? Saban finished out his season with the Dolphins and then went to Bama.

Coach Rod left WVU with one game left (after signing an extension last year).

Coaching today is full of sleaze balls. See Petrino for instance. It's all about the $$$.

Feelin' Blue said...

Joe, my brother in rivalry losses.

I am not making fun of the losses to Auburn. I know all too well that multiple consecutive losses to a rival is no laughing matter.

And believe me, losing to App State was one of the most embarrassing, shocking things that I have experienced as a Michigan fan. It sucks. It's heartbreaking. And it was a game we should have won.

But UL-Monroe is still not as good as App St, even if it is I-A.

Joe said...

Feelin' Blue,

My point was that we both had suck ass seasons and lost games we had no business losing. Next season can't get here soon enough!

Maybe we both can beat our rivals next year! This crap has to end! lol

Good luck in your bowl game.