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Saturday, January 19, 2008

Hell Hath No Furry Like West Virginia Scorned


84 comments:

srudoff said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joe said...

RR is slimy. I think the good folks in A2 will tire of him quickly. I just do not like the man.

srudoff said...

That movie poster looks weird....

almost as if it were, like, shredded a bit, down the middle... oh well, it's probably nothing but still...

:)

DaBraylon17 said...

Joe: he is not slimy, you are

srudoff (whatever that is): well, you know what i think of you.

yost: this shit is getting out of hand and it's FUCKING with the recruiting process. west virginia is just out for blood and they will do anything possible to fuck over RR and michigan. damn those bitter, jealous, angry hicks.

beast in 'bama said...

On the other side of drinks, dinner and a one night stand, lies a terrifying love story...

"Bring the dog, I love animals... I'm a great cook."



That movie saved a LOT of marriages in the '80s.

surrounded in columbus said...

BiB,
saved a lot of marriages AND convinced a lot of fathers to NOT get the kid a rabbit as a pet.

sru,
obviously a set up. if R2 had shredded it, you wouldn't be able to read the thing at all.

Nathan said...

I know this is a UM blog and all fans are bias to their team but come one. If you had a coach who was an alumni from UM and he decided to leave but he told his recruits before his players or coaches, handed in his resignation letter through an assistant coach, and shredded who knows what (probably nothing important) on the way out the door without ever saying anything to the fans, and then tried to get out of paying the $4 mil contract he signed LAST SEASON would you guys honestly say "just let it go and move on." I seriously doubt it. UM is one of the top programs so you don't really have to worry about your coaches leaving for bigger jobs, but I think WVU fans have a reason to be pissed.

surrounded in columbus said...

well, the BS coming out of WVU is already beginning to come undone. the big "phone scandal" story is already showing loose ends- http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080118/SPORTS06/80117100/1054.

the rest of the BS will continue to come up empty as well. wvu will end up looking like the bitter bitches that they are. unfortunately, the stories detailing what a bunch of lying sobs wvu is won't make near the headlines the lies have made.

on the other hand, having bill stewart as the coach the next four years will likely end up producing a "just" result in the long run.

Nathan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nathan said...

SIC- I thought the "phone scandal" was about him possibly recruiting for Michigan from WVU. What does that article have to do with that? Who cares if he called home or his voicemail?

WingRG said...

SiC,

just as you pointed out, in the end it won't matter if there is any truth behind the allegations. Well, it'll matter to the UM fan base, but to the rest of us it won't.

The days when UM could take the high road and hide behind the image of a "squeaky clean" coach, running a "squeaky clean" program (i'm talking about coach Carr) are over, whether you like it or not.

Sure, there might be no truth to the allegations, but just the fact that the allegations were made, already tarnishes his image. Let me be the first to say: "It's not fair". But that's the society we live in. People want to rush to judgment now, and find out the facts later.

surrounded in columbus said...

so, i get a txt from a friend, citing the "shred" incident and stating that michigan doesn't have anything over tosu or tre$$el anymore, we're just as "dirty".

and i reply back- so, you finally admit tre$$el is dirty??

didn't get a response.

michigan's image and personna of a clean program does not depend on business dealings w/ other U's or large organizations- ask the Nike guys how they feel about the switch to Addidas. business is business, from stealing fritz crisler from princeton to playing hardball over marketing rights, michigan has never tried to link the integrity of the football program to how it makes money w/ the football program.

the program's image comes from ncaa compliance, avoiding the coach & players taking joy rides on private jets, not tolerating boosters paying players for jobs they didn't work, and holding players accountable for their off field behavior.

sorry,wrgrg, but in the long run, no one (w/ any objectivity) will judge a coach's image, as a coach and how he runs a program, by looking at how this K was broken.

in terms of a program's image, a coach having a pissing match w/ his former employer does NOT equate to maurice claret, troy smith, and 20+ arrests. seriously? can you imagine the exchange-

Yost- "so, 4 tosu players were arrested for drunking driving and soliciting an underage male prostitute"

tosu fan- "oh yeah? well Rich Rod never paid his buyout clause to WVU. The days when UM could take the high road and hide behind the image of a "squeaky clean" coach, running a "squeaky clean" program are over, whether you like it or not. "

sorry, but in the words of JC- that dog won't hunt.

R2 has never had an NCAA problem. never had an arrest problem (which is not to say no one has ever been arrested @ wvu, but just not on a scale or scope different from the norm).

don't expect us to come off the mountain top anytime soon.

Joshua said...

Well Glenn Close looks better in a helmet, that's for sure.

"The days when UM could take the high road and hide behind the image of a "squeaky clean" coach, running a "squeaky clean" program (i'm talking about coach Carr) are over, whether you like it or not."

If (and note I said if) he runs a squeaky clean program for the next 2/3 years I think our institutional squeakiness trumps his little bit of rumored sketchiness. And yes, those are technical terms.

The reports of our demise have been greatly exaggerated folks.... and we'll always be arrogant and feel superior, it doesn't go away- the degrees just change. Not saying it's right, but it is what it is. It's like Charlie weiss's fatness, even that stomach reduction surgery didn't help.

But hey, whatever makes you feel better.

WingRG said...

SiC,

your program has only been "squeaky clean" in your own eyes, the rest of us haven't been agreeing with that for a while. And since you bring up our 20+ arrests, i would like to ask you: "How many UM players have been arrested in the last 5 years". If you do the math, i would bet the number is not that low.

Now, i wasn't trying to convince you that you have a coach that's dirty. That's impossible, just like it's impossible for you to convince me that Tressel is dirty. I was merely bringing in some outside perspective. In today's society, his image has already taken a hit, since these allegations have given his opponents ammo.

You don't have to agree with me, but you can't really change that.

Vadatripp said...

wingrg - "your program has only been "squeaky clean" in your own eyes, the rest of us haven't been agreeing with that for a while....You don't have to agree with me, but you can't really change that."

joshua - "But hey, whatever makes you feel better."

WingRG said...

vadatripp,

i am on record saying that i don't really care if anybody on my university's football team gets arrested or gets in trouble. So i definitely don't care if YOUR university's football program has a "squeaky clean" reputation.

There're a few things in life that "make me feel better" and bashing UM is definitely not one of them (so don't flatter yourself).

Joshua said...

Wing,

I think he was agreeing with you, saying whatever makes me feel better b/c I think we have a squeaky clean program. And from a program standpoint it's true. We haven't had a QB suspended for taking money nor a star running back dismissed for whatever else he was doing. that's not a shot at you guys, it happens in a lot of places, just not here.

As for arrests, they'll happen and I'll conceed that. NCAA violations are not a mere forgive and forget thing with our fanbase and our players adn coaches know that. So from our perspective we are still squeaky clean, and yes- it makes me feel better. Something about pointing at a trophy isn't as much fun when I know we cheated to get it.

Jim said...

Seriously, and I love the idea that because some bunch of jilted yahoos have decided to spread whatever specious crap they can think of to make themselves feel better, that somehow tarnishes Michigan's image "whether we like it or not." Well, it doesn't. It just makes those who decide to make judgements based on whatever sketchy innuendo scrolls across their screen look like smooth-brained, reactionary twits.

And Nathan, yes, you do need to get over it. When RR said he'd be there a long time (or whatever), I'm sure he meant it at the time. Shit changes. New opportunities arise. People get excited and emotional and say things they can't possibly live up to. For every dig you want to make, there's a more resonable/positive spin. Last year you would have bought one side, this year you're on the other. Just because your former coach made a decision you didn't like doesn't make him suddenly evil. Apparently it makes you incapable of objectivity. I don't know if RR is "squeaky clean." I don't know if he cut any corners during his transition between jobs, but I'm surely not going to make any judgements based on Internet scuttlebutt and kneejerk articles in the sports pages (which, as of late, have about as much credibility as the Weekly World News).

Joshua said...

The Weekly World News always has it right. If everyone had just checked with them we'd know that R2was shredding documents about Elvis designing the spread during a break in an alien autopsy.

Vadatripp said...

Joshua -

No, I meant it exactly how wingrg took it. Seriously, I have no interest in posting on OSU boards so I cannot fathom why wing, sru, Nathan (OK, he's a psycho WVU fan - I understand that one) et. al. would post here, other than to incite UM fans (which they obviously do). If he wants to post his obviously-biased opinion and supposedly represent "the rest of us" (whoever that is), I would go to an OSU board. But, as you said...

"hey, whatever makes you feel better."

Nathan said...

Jim- I personally am over it, but I don't blame others for still being pissed about the way he left. I've never thought he was that great of a coach anyway (21-22 record vs. schools with winning seasons doesn't really get my juices flowing), so I wasn't that disappointed when I learned he was leaving (of course I'm not too happy about hiring our new coach in the middle of the night after one win either).

Vadatripp said...

"As for this blog itself, is there nothing going on in the world of almight Michigan athletics as to where you post 2-3 WV blogs a day. I guess you can't say much for the bball team"

Joshua - And here is Exhibit A. (His paragraph is not really that coherent, but I think I get the gist of it.)

Jim said...

uh...it's a football blog.

Joshua said...

Nathan,
I'm confident that with the kind of talent R2 can pull to this university he will be quite successful. He had to win with less talent over there and he did it, so I'm not all that worried about him not being successful here.

And as for your highly original App state reference, I guess that's fair. I'd pull out a Pittsburgh reference, but you're now stuck with a lesser coach and the same talent you lost with, so I wouldn't want to rub that in. I'm sure when you guys go downhill and we continue to be a top-notch program you'll still be around whining about how he's over-rated, so I'll just save that for when you lose to the Pornstache again next year. And Rutgers. And Louisville. And Cincinnati, who's coach actually does have issues and who we decided not to even interview.

Look, I tried to be nice, and I tried to save you from yourself yesterday. Either start thinking your shit through or we're coming for Jennifer Garner too.

Jim said...

I think we need to coin a new Michigan corollary to Godwin's Law:

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of an opposing fan making a reference to Appalacian State approaches one."

Joshua said...

Nice.

That could make two wikipedia edits we could make this week.

Vadatripp said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Vadatripp said...

This story pretty much sums how I feel about the situation.

whetstonebuck said...

Woohoo.

As an "et al" I just want to say that this thread has so much negative energy it could make a puppy pull a freight train.

For sale: one slightly charred sofa. Five bucks/OBO.

surrounded in columbus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jim said...

Vada-

That's a great article.

For the most part, though I can't speak for everyone, there are no blinders here. If there are issues with RR's ethics. They'll come out...eventually. But a parade of anonymous (and repeatedly refuted) sources and blogosphere opinion doesn't prove anything.

Reserving judgement, waiting for evidence...more elitist Michigan crap, I know..

surrounded in columbus said...

wtrck,
i'm thinking you guys should switch from sofas to old mattresses. i actually have a couple of old mattresses sitting in the garage and was disappointed when tosu lost the bcs game (denying me of the opportunity of getting all the liquored up tosu guests at the house that night to help me carry them out and set fire to them in the street).

wgrg,
arrests, convictions, multilple arrests by one player, add it up any way you like. the number comes out pretty much tosu = the next two big ten schools combined.

as far as our image as "squeaky clean" being just ours? go read any of the epitaphs (SI, ESPN, damned near any blog or sportswriter) on Lloyd's career following the bowl. they almost uniformly cite his "squeaky clean" record as a coach. it's not just our perception.

nathan,
you need to give it rest- for your own sake. if all the tosu trolls in the world haven't changed our superior attitude and over bearing self confidence, i doubt you are going to make a dent by yourself. we're not buying the whole "R2's a SOB/you guys look like tosu now" story.

we are arrogant. we really don't care what others say. someone pass the brie'.

surrounded in columbus said...

Vada,
that article IS very good. come next fall, THAT is the lasting impression most fans (michigan or others) will have towards the whole fiasco.

Joshua said...

uh-oh, looks like I hit a nerve.

So what you're saying is he took a recruit who no one else offered a quarterback scholarship to and developed him to the point where he could win a BCS game? And WV won 11 wins three years in a row? You're right Nathan, he's not that good. /sarcasm

Look man, I was defending you when it seemed like most people were piling on today. It's not my fault you continue to beat a dead horse about R2 not being that good, and how he's slimy, and how he's not going to be that good of a hire. When all else fails you bring up App State? Let's see- three straight national titles vs. 5-6, 6-6 and 5-7. Not the same division, and apparently not even in the same class.

"Looks ok in the Big Ten but outside of that its just blowout after blowout."

Riiiiight. Because we so clearly got blown out by Florida this year. Like I said, learn how to form an argument. I'm not stuck-up, I just continue to point out inconsistencies in your arguments. If you can't handle people pointing out that you're wrong, than quit putting forth jackass posts. It's not my fault we have a bigger stadium, better tradition, better facilities, better talent and apparently a better A.D.- It's a better job, period. That's not stuck up, that's fact. So go ahead and whine, but don't get pissed when you bring a knife to a gun fight and I pull out a colt .45 and blow your ass away- just go the hell away.

Joshua said...

"someone pass the brie'."

rofl. classic.

yost, if he wants to make a fool of himself you should just leave his posts up. Negative energy aside (sorry to contribute but it's Friday and it's cold and gray and i'm stuck at a desk 3 miles from 30,000+ Sparties) he kinda gives us something to do.

A2saint said...

Am I alone in believing that if R2 does turn out to have problems with ethics he won't be at A2 too long... That's the difference!

srudoff said...

sic - perhaps he stopped shredding the poster after he realized that they might not have another copy?

dabraylon17 - i'm trying to make sense of your name too. ok i know da is the retard way to say "the". and we all know what "bra" means. so half way through, we can see that you're "the bra". but what's "ylon" mean? and were there 16 other "the Bra Ylon"'s before you? perplexing to say the least

Joshua said...

Man, Sru's on fire today! Did someone get a sense of humor for Chritmas? I think they did, didn't they.

saint,
it won't stand in Ann Arbor. If he does turn out to be sketchy he'll be gone, but he's never had a problem before- it's all rumor and innuendo. Should be a non-issue. Now let's talk Ninja Recruiting!

surrounded in columbus said...

sru,
i suppose he could have shredded it, realized it was his only copy, and then matched up and glued the strips back together...

surrounded in columbus said...

josh,

thanks.

after years in cowtown listening to rants of how we're all elitist snobs, i decided i might as well deserve it.

my wife (the tosu grad) tells me i make it look natural. she drinks merlot. what does she know?

Katie said...

I am amazed that there remains this much discussion over something that really needs to be put to bed.

I love the SI article.....somebody in the media has a clue, let's hope that WV listens.

That will be all. Thank you.

Joshua said...

"...she drinks merlot. what does she know?"

Tell her I commend her for being a Buckeye and having the courage to move past white zin. I'm surprised they didn't ostracize her immediately upon graduating from Boone's Farm. Then again, they probably think it's grape kool-aid.

"I am amazed that there remains this much discussion over something that really needs to be put to bed. "

"When have I ever shied away from talking about someone who needs to be put to bed?"

Oh, you said something. My bad.

Katie said...

LOL@Joshua, I should have known better! :P

Hemlock Philosopher said...

"we are arrogant. we really don't care what others say. someone pass the brie'." Well, brie, I'm not a big fan of, but I am drinking Arrogant Bastard. You are not worthy!

surrounded in columbus said...

hem,
personally i shy away from beer unless it's warm, or all i have.

however, arrogant bastard is an excellent choice no matter the weather.

as for brie? well, let's just say it's not bad w/ some fruit and a good chardonnay on a summer day and nothing says "quit casting a shadow on my tailgate, peasant" quite like french cheese & california wine.

Tom C said...

Fat Bastard here hem.

whetstonebuck said...

"as for brie? well, let's just say it's not bad w/ some fruit and a good chardonnay on a summer day and nothing says "quit casting a shadow on my tailgate, peasant" quite like french cheese & california wine."

And you wonder why your stadium is Death Valley quiet. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

SiC,

Sounds like you've attended one too many Chick-Flick outings with the girls.

As for Arrogant Bastard...the other extreme of liquid refreshment. Good grief, that's nasty stuff. However, excellent typecasting of your fan base.

Cheers!

surrounded in columbus said...

Is it my imagination, or has the caption always said: "hell hath no FURRY..."? As opposed to "fury"?

Joshua said...

The peasant comment was awesome and deserves its own t-shirt, but I just spit coke all over my monitor with that one. Nice catch.

whetstonebuck said...

"Furry" is the fem. form for "Fury" which is masc.

Now, back to brie and light wines as we enjoy the reading of "The Bridges of Madison County" by SiC.

Next week he will titillate us with Michael Ondaatje's "The English Patient."

These readings are required for those seeking a degree in Communications or as we like to point out--the whole Wolverine football team.

surrounded in columbus said...

Nice idea Wet but "Bridges..." is pretty common. I'd go w/ something a little more off the beaten track, like "The Master & Magarita".

Then we could see how many tosu fans tune in w/ a pitcher of Cuervo expecting something akin to a jimmy buffet tune.

whetstonebuck said...

No SiC. We don't do readings. We watch the movie ("film" for the brie crowd) and get rowdy.

Now sing-a-longs with a keg or that pitcher of Cuervo might draw us in.

Joe said...

DaBraylon17, the funny thing is that you spent time trying to think of a comeback. And that is the best you came up with. LMAO!

DaBraylon17 said...

ok joe. whatever you want to think. i was not trying to think of a come back. but if you think you got the better of me, continue to do so. you are the bigger man on the internet and i just cannot compete with you, almighty internet message board insulter.

whetstonebuck said...

"almighty internet message board insulter."

Now wait just a cotton-pickin' minute. I thought that was your title, DaBray. After all, I've been the recipient of your out-of-the-blue flaming diatribes. Don't let Joe walk away with your title. Get scrappy, my man.

Tom C said...

Has anyone seen the espn article about wvu telling our offensive coordinator that he was not going to be considered for rr's job because he was black?

Harry P. Ness said...

Admit it. Your all in bed with a snake.

srudoff said...

FWIW...

Apparently on the premium Michigan forum on rivals.com, a UM student posted that Tony Clemons is telling people the Terrelle Pryor is not coming to Michigan...

DaBraylon17 said...

i didn't think he would go to michigan anyway. all that money that tresseLL has offered is too much to pass up.

Out of Conference said...

You would think after Michigan's great success with Beilein at the helm of the hoops team, that WVU would be laughing their asses off that Michigan would go to the same well again.

whetstonebuck said...

"all that money that tresseLL has offered is too much to pass up."

Can't wait for the facts to surface regarding this allegation.

DaBraylon17 said...

someday it will happen. treseLL is a fuckin mob boss. he appears to be this perfect, nice gentleman, but those are two attributes of a mob boss. behind all the good things he does, there are things going on that should not be...like paying players.

DaBraylon17 said...

and don't forget steroids

Feelin' Blue said...

Joe, what's up with your picture anyway? Are you calling an illegal block in the back on someone? Or are you playing rock-paper-scissors against yourself?

Joshua said...

"Admit it. Your all in bed with a snake."

Admit it. You're in bed with poor grammar.

DaBraylon17 said...

lol at feelin blue and joshua. funny posts...and correct

whetstonebuck said...

"someday it will happen. treseLL is a fuckin mob boss. he appears to be this perfect, nice gentleman, but those are two attributes of a mob boss. behind all the good things he does, there are things going on that should not be...like paying players."

Geez, louise. You really ought to go to the FBI with this stuff. It's explosive. No doubt there are some buried bodies.

DaBraylon17 said...

i will

surrounded in columbus said...

sorry wtrk, but whether the evidence exists or not, pretty much everyone outside the tosu nation thinks Sweater Boy is dirty. EDSBS's nick name for him is "Cheaty Pants McSweatervest".

as for the non stop Pryor mania, both the Dispatch & the Freep have run recent columns saying that Michigan "must" land Pryor.

Tripe.

that's like saying tre$$el must land justin zwick.

or that Holtz must land ron powlus.

we can't judge the success of the new staff for years. one recruit isn't going to make the difference overnight.

Joshua said...

Well it was either poor grammar or he was telling me that my laundry detergent was in bed with a snake.
Because I use Tide and not All, I decided he must just be grammatically challenged.

Whets,
They'll never find the bodies- they seem to have disappeared, not unlike my ability to receive mail when I give people my correct address. It's all a buckeye conspiracy I tell you- all a buckeye conspiracy!

Feelin' Blue said...

We should send a cyborg back to 2006 to protect Terrelle Pryor from the Sweatervest.

whetstonebuck said...

SiC,

Melodrama aside, EDSBS enjoys coaches who don't have the Howdy Doody look. Not a good source considering the fun they've had at your expense over the last couple of years.

Aside from the Wolverine nation and a couple of Big Ten schools that can't compete with tOSU all I ever read or see regarding Tressel from around the country is that he's classy. Squeaky? Nope.

The smart guy who knows how to work the system to avoid paying taxes ends up being the better businessman versus the squeaky guy who pays up whatever the IRS tells him to. Yeah, Mr. Squeaky can go around saying I pay everything the IRS tells me to pay. I run a good clean business. I'm a good citizen. He's also stupid.

Meanwhile the tax avoider (not evader) says I found the loopholes in an unwieldy antiquated system and I pushed the limits of their interpretations back on to them. They could not find fault. Consequently, I paid only the taxes I had to and I'm money ahead to reinvest in my business. Smart and gutsy: a good combination.

There’s nothing new about those two competing moral philosophies. I think football programs adopt one or the other when it comes to the NCAA. Is one more moral than the other? Depends on how you view unreasonable agencies, their web of red tape, your view of redeemable athletes, your goals, etc. Sometimes it’s not a moral argument. Sometimes it’s just a worldview issue.

"whether the evidence exists or not."

That statement doesn't do your argument any favors.

Most folks, including the NCAA, bank their decisions on the evidence (except during presidential election years). It's that whole justice thing that separates us from corrupt third-world countries like Florida and Louisiana.

I believe you all are doing the evidence shuffle right now with your new boy...at least that's what the rest of the country is saying outside of the Wolverine nation.

I know, I know, “If any of these allegations against RR prove to be true, he will be terminated.” I’ll believe that when I see it. You all have entered a new era with Lloyd’s retirement. You may have to put up with a few smudges on your squeaky clean reputation every now and then.

For the record, I haven’t bought in to any of the accusations against your new coach. I haven’t seen any evidence. The soap opera is entertaining though.

Joshua said...

Whets,
Tremendous analogy on the tax thing. Brilliant, actually. I was beginning to think I wrote it myself it was so good.

Threadjack:
The Lions hired Loeff to be their QB coach. I will now rescind my statement that he'll someday be our head coach as no one can survive that poison. what a shame.
/threadjack

Feelin' Blue said...

I'm just looking forward to the day when Mike Hart takes over. He'll be a throwback to the classy Michigan coaches such as Bo and Lloyd.

RR just isn't the classiest coach right now. He's not as slimy as WVU makes him out to be, but Lloyd would have never found himself in this situation. He was sick of WVU so he left. He shouldn't have said that he would be there for a long time and he shouldn't have left before the bowl game, but WVU is launching a smear campaign against him out of craziness.

Feelin' Blue said...

Ah, Tressel. What do I make of him?

He's smooth. He's classy in public, although he does sometimes say things that can be seen as a little obnoxious. I think that there is something shady going on, but he is miles removed from Woody Hayes, and he really isn't so bad when you compare him to real pricks like Dantonio and Urban Meyer. The Pope was classy when talking about Michigan before the C1 Bowl, but Dantonio is just downright obnoxious.

surrounded in columbus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
surrounded in columbus said...

wtrck,

first, there's no evidence to shuffle w/ R2. he's never had an ncaa problem. he's never had an "arrest" problem. there's no evidence to shuffle. he's run a compliant program.

the only negative evidence is he's got a bad relationship w/ his former employer and a nasty lawsuit to go w/ it. how will that effect his coaching and the conduct of the program at michigan???

second, tre$$el's ncaa problems go back to ysu. the "evidence" is staggering to anyone who wants to look at it. claret, smith, and dozens of arrests speak for themselves AS TO HOW HE RUNS HIS PROGRAM.

since you brought up taxes, here's my little IRS analogy.

remember, Capone never did a minute of time for killing anyone. he was convicted of tax evasion. does that really change anyone's perception that he was a mob boss and a vicious killer? all those murders- does anyone try to argue they didn't happen because he was never convicted of them?

that tre$$el has never been caught by the ncaa doesn't change anyone's perception of him, either.

whetstonebuck said...

SiC,

You all love that mob boss analogy. Even you have to admit that's over the top.

As far as perception, I think your subject pool is narrower than you want to believe.

Capone got tagged for evasion. There's a difference between evasion and avoidance. One's illegal.

You missed the point of my analogy. One man's dirty is another man's smarts.

If Tre$$eLL (that is pretty clever) is as bad as you want him to be then he's smarter than anyone at the NCAA or the NCAA is a bunch of idiots. Which is it? Is it both?

He's one of the highest profile coaches out there. Taking him down would be a feather in someone's cap.

Maybe we're back to my analogy and he knows how to play the NCAA to his advantage. Dirty or smart: you choose, but choose wisely.

By the way, I read all the YSU stuff and the Clarett cluster, etc. Sorry, I don't get it. Seems like ol' Tress knows human behavior, how people respond, what they're capable of and how to take all that, stay on the line and still produce winners. It is a business. I think he’s brilliant…and classy.

This argument reminds me of the citizen/farmer in the revolution using all sorts of "uncivilized" (cheating/dirty) methods of warfare against the British. You can criticize hiding behind a tree to shoot, but only an idiot stays exposed in the open. I'll throw my lot in with the guy smart enough to improvise even if it insults convention.

surrounded in columbus said...

wt,
i think the better analogy is speeding. some speed 8 mph over. some 25 mph over. and some drive the speed limit.

there is generally thought to be, in most every jurisdiction, some level of tolerance of speeding. 5 mph it strict locales, 10 mph or so in others. a few require strict adherence.

so you're driving along in you ncaa mobile, driving 8 mph, "w/ the traffic". everyone drives 8 mph over the speed limit fairly safe in the knowledge that speeding at this level won't get you a ticket.

then, some guy in a red car w/ grey trim blows by you? driving 25 mph over the limit?

since you're already driving 8 mph over the limit, you can't think the guy driving 25 mph over the limit is wrong? any trooper will tell you the consequences of accidents, etc., increase dramatically w/ increased speed. the problems w/ driving 25 mph over the limit is far more dangerous than driving 8 mph over.

that the red & grey car hasn't been ticketed yet (just a glove box full of warnings) doesn't mean everyone else doesn't see it for what it is, call it for what it is, and hold it in contempt.

whetstonebuck said...

SiC,

That was good.

Fun debate also, thanks.

Well, obviously our perspective is different based on personal bias (don't deny it) and philosophical outlook. We'll just have to agree to disagree and see if a trooper behind an NCAA billboard pulls over the red and grey car or the NCAA finally raises the speed limit 25 mph while people applaud the red and grey car driver for bringing reality to the attention of those regulating motorists.

Off subject:
How in the world did you even date an OSU girl much less marry one? Inquiring minds need to know.

surrounded in columbus said...

Old saw- a man marries a woman hoping she never changes; a woman marries a man planning to change him.

I married her (back when Cooper was coach) thinking she'd always be a fan but not over the top. She married me planning to see that I got used to it, if not out & out convert me.

Vadatripp said...

You're not the couple in that disgusting ESPN commercial making out on the couch in your team sweatshirts, are you?

(Or was that an OSU dude and a Michigan chick? Should I be more offended if it was one way instead of the other....?

Either way, that was disgusting.)

Joshua said...

Vada,
The girl is a Michigan fan in that commercial. I believe it's well documented that every time they show it I scream "Get your hand off her knee, she's not a whore!" like a drunken tourettes sufferer, though in real life I am in fact just a drunken sufferer who likes to yell out random things at the television. Take from this story what you will, which is probably nothing. :)

SIC,
loved the defense of the decision. I once dated an OSU fan who looked amazingly like Elizabeth Shue (rawr.) and was a Scorpio just like me. While I think she was hoping to change me, I was just hoping to get in the pants of a Scorpio who looked like Elizabeth Shue. Alas, we both failed.

williamrich said...
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