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Thursday, December 06, 2007

The sky is not falling, Michigan fans

Let me start off by saying I'm a big fan of Brian Cook and his blog, MGoBlog. It is hands down the best Michigan site on the web - including this one.

However, I couldn't disagree with him more regarding the current U-M coaching search.

Over the last couple of the days as The Les Miles Incident played out, Brian has been near apocalyptic in his assessment of Michigan's actions - or inaction - with regards to "losing" Miles, calling what happened - or didn't happen - a "fiasco" and a "colossal screwup by Bill Martin, aided by Lloyd Carr."

I know we bloggers are in the business of hyperbole, but Brian's remarks constitute the biggest overreaction and misrepresentation in the history of recorded human existence.

Look, I'm no fan of Bill Martin, but the only thing he's guilty of is keeping his word and not contacting Miles before he said he would. I know, shocking. Keeping one's word and ethical conduct in a coaching search are so...old school. Of course the conspiracy theorists (aka Miles backers) see some Machiavellian motive in this. I guess nothing will change that opinion. I however prefer a school that follows rules and a man's word is man's word.

Bri also had a problem with Martin not having already interviewed Miles face-to-face long before Carr retired and, short of that, suggested Martin should have simply talked to him on the phone...

"How do you not have an extended one-on-one interview with the man obviously most qualified for the job at this point? Michigan has known Carr was retiring since September, and Martin knows literally dozens of Miles' friends. Hell, John Wangler is his BFF. Call Wangler into your office, have him call Miles, and have a goddamn interview on the phone. There is no excuse for failing to hammer out whatever potential differences existed months ago. All this interview stuff is purely for show if we are operating under the assumption Martin has an IQ above 60."

Again, love and respect Brian, totally disagree.

You don't have an interview like that because word would get out. In this day and age? Such a meeting would have been all over every college football blog in by the time the check dropped (except this blog as we'd have been asleep at the wheel posting nudie pix).

And I'm sorry, but I don't care if Vince Lombardi himself comes back from the dead - you have a face-to-face meeting with him. Period. Just imagine if U-M hired Miles and it didn't work out. People would be going ape-shit if they found out that a school which hires coaches once a generation didn't even sit down to talk about things before hiring only its 4th coach since the Johnson Administration.

Finally, to blame Carr in any way, shape or form in this is ludicrous. If he's has shown anything in all his years at Michigan, it's that he's a man of integrity. If he wasn't, he'd be telling the whole world and every ESPN host what his beef was with Miles. Yeah, he obviously has a problem with him, but he hasn't said a word publicly.

Just what is that problem? We don't know.

Outside the same sort of unfounded rumors and innuendo surrounding the coaching search to date, nobody knows for sure just what the problem is that Carr has with Miles. Maybe, just maybe, it's legit. Yet we - the Internet echo chamber - will never know for sure because Carr will never tell.

So no matter what Carr's dislike is based on, he has it and thus isn't going to support or back a person he doesn't believe in. Watch his retirement press conference again and tell me if this is a man who would purposely screw up a great thing for his beloved Michigan just to "get back" at someone he has a personal beef with. Hell no.

Thus, should Carr fake his opinion to appease others, even if he disagrees or it goes against what he believes? Hell no. And to ask - or expect - that from him would be both wrong and unfair.

USC didn't get their first choice (or second or third) last time they went looking for a coach and it worked out okay. And if you recall, Tressel wasn't exactly the top choice in Columbus yet that hasn't sucked for them. So let's all just take a deep breath and let this thing play out. It's okay. Everybody step away from the ledge.

P.S. Bri, I still hope this means I get to vote in the Blogpoll.

UPDATE: Due to some comments received, I sincerely hope readers realize this isn't intended as a bash at Brian or MGoBlog in the least. I simply disagree with his POV on this subject. I would hope people understand that one can have a difference of opinion and still like, respect and admire the person holding another viewpoint.


Misha said...

I couldn't agree with you more.

Miles seemed like the perfect hire. He wanted us, we wanted him, he was a Michigan Man, he won, we were his dream job. It was a match made in heaven. It was such an easy, clear-cut choice. But when that fell through, everyone was just lost as to what to do next. People are looking for that perfect, clear-cut, head and shoulders above the rest kind of guy. And to be honest, there's no one matching that description. And the vacuum created by this situation is what i creating all the uproar. There's not specific target, so people are going nuts.

Bill Martin is not an idiot. He was justified in waiting to talk to Miles until Sunday, and not promising the job without a face-to-face interview. LSU pulled one on Miles, delivering him a black and white ultimatum, and Miles took a bird in hand against five in the bush. Good for him. Time to move on.

Martin needs to not move too quickly now. Yes that's right, he needs to take things slowly and carefully. There's no need to hire someone within the next week or even the next two weeks. Spend time, talk to 5, 10, even 20 candidates. Get a feel for everyone out there. There's no need to rush this hire. Don't barrel headlong into Kirk Ferentz or Brady Hoke. I won't even mention Debord/English/interim (I think Martin knows he'd be tying both his own noose and that of entire Wolverine program with such a move). We are hiring the coach for the next generation here. This hire needs to be well-thought.

We - the Michigan Fanbase - want and expect instant results, and expect that Martin is thinking the same way. We're scared that he'll act as impulsively as we're thinking, and make a blunder of a hire just because we need a coach soooo soon and soooo badly. Calm down - Martin won't do that. He will take all the time he needs until he finds someone whom he has enough faith in to give that man the job.

So where does that leave us, average Joe Wolverine? Well, we just need to wait, be patient, and not jump, kick, scream, bitch, moan, cry, whine, and create a ruckus over every internet rumor, message board posting, "breaking story", or simple apprehension that pops up. Just sit back and watch history be made. Remember, this kind of thing only happens a a few times in each of our lifetimes.

Katie said...

So glad to read the voice of reason this morning. Thanks Yost, 'bout time someone said what needed to be said!

Crabapple Buck said...

I still believe Miles will be the next UM coach. Until he SIGNS the contract with LSU, the deal is not done. I think it is a smoke screen to get thru the BCSCG. Then on January 8 you will have your new coach, fresh off of a loss to tOSU, just like the old coach.

whetstonebuck said...

I cannot believe Jim Tressel is not being interviewed for his opinion regarding Michigan's new coach. It would be an old school courtesy considering Jim's ownership of whoever it will be.

Come on, people, let's get back to Big 10 civility and work together on this.

Steven said...

Lets be clear. The reason why the vocal portion of the Wolverine nation is up in arms about the Les Miles situation is, in part, the dearth of top-notch, available candidates who are likely to accept the post. If Brian's post from yesterday (stating that Ferentz is the "#1 priority") is true, then it is likely that those doing the hiring believe this as well. That makes it a two-horse race between a potential status quo candidate and a pro-change candidate.

Given the general malaise and lack of excitement provided by the program lately (some might see it as a decline), change and house-cleaning is what we need. Whether last Saturday's performance was "old school" or just plain idiocy doesn't matter -- it severely limited our options. Even if Miles is still available, it probably made him more expensive.

When USC made its search a few years ago, there was no "preserve the status quo" option. Undeniably, the program had sunk far further than the Wolverines have today and there was little dispute. The range of candidates considered (and permitted to be considered) was much broader.

I don't necessarily agree that "Martin needs to not move too quickly now", as misha argued.
Reports of Bill Martin lounging on vacation while important wheels are turning do not help. Currently committed recruits that would be significant components of the rebuilding process are, if reports are to be believed, scheduling visits with rival schools. We need leadership that is on the ball, engaged and objective. The length of this search could determine how long it takes the next administration to rebuild the program and how much of an uphill struggle it faces. We cannot resolve this situation quickly enough.

Jeff F said...

The LSU AD said repeatedly that it was OK for UM to talk to Miles' agent, just not actually to Miles. There was NO CONTACT between UM and the agent, despite two calls from the agent to Bill Martin's cell phone.

Bill Martin either didn't really want Miles, or he fumbled this badly.

Dezzi said...

I blame all the rumors on those who want to be the first to know so they can register the domain for www.fire(insert last name of new head coach).com.


We could only be courteous since tOSU had us involved in all of John Cooper's contract negotiations...

whetstonebuck said...


LOL. Excellent. So true.

I was hoping to get the partisans' blood pumping this morning.

MGoBlue93 said...

I don't have a problem with Miles NOT coming to coach U of M.

However, as much as I dislike the Buckeyes on that 3rd Saturday in November, I dislike Bill Martin more.

Don Canham is rolling over in his grave at how Martin conducts University business. Martin is a bean counter pure and simple. Martin is aloof, uninvolved with the University, and distant from the students and alumni.

By way of comparison, I know of and have seen ADs, with my own eyes, who make an honest effort to attend every sporting event on campus... from BB midnight madness to volleyball.

Where is Martin during events -- nowhere to be found. Where is Martin during bowl games -- FUCKING sailing. And if this article is true, Martin was nowhere to be found during the Miles search (this may be by design, I don't know -- but it goes to a pattern of behavior and reflects poorly).

Yeah, Martin found a good BB coach but the way it was handled was total 3rd world country bush-league. I cannot imagine if I'm recruited by a corporate headhunter, schmoozed for a great job, and then told I'll have to pay money out of my own pocket to get there. That's total crap (for a supposed elite program) and completely, 100%, on Martin.

Breaston154LIFE said...

steven I think you are referring regarding to recruits about Boubacar Cissoko scheduling a visit to Illinois. In the article I read it said he knows he's going to Michigan. I know that doesn't mean much but still we got to be optimistic about our recruits and coaching search.

As for Sam McGuffie, I heard that he is staying at Michigan regardless of who the next head coach is all thanks to Fred Jackson.

Right now, I have never seen the biggest bunch of paranoid Michigan fans. CALM DOWN

It was not the end of the world when Les Miles said he's staying at LSU.

Jake said...

Uh, Yost, there's a reason why your blog gets like 50 comments, at most, per entry, and MGoBlog gets like 4000.

To paraphrase Lloyd Bentson: "I know Brian and MGoBlog, and trust me, MZone is no MGoBlog."

whetstonebuck said...

"...and trust me, MZone is no MGoBlog."

Thank God for that. I peruse the MGoBlog for a good laugh every day. Hyper-delusional Area 51 fanbase. The Herbstreit/Tressel/Miles conspiracy bandied about a couple of days ago was classic insanity.

Out of Conference said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
J. Lichty said...

The problems are twofold and I don't think Brian is completely overreacting. In the end it may seem that way, but right now there is legitimate cause for concern.

Miles appeared to be the only exciting candidate that was even being talked about. What we know now is that four people have been contacted: Miles (kinda); Debord, English and Brady Hoke. Strong rumors that the overpaid Kirk Ferentz is Lloyd's guy if Martin won't hire DeBord. So if that is what your dealing with, losing Miles seems like a big deal.

If people were hearing that no, Miles is not coming here but Michigan is pursuing Tedford, Schiano, Kelly etc, instead of Debord or Ferentz, the sky would not be falling as much.

OSU fans would have reacted the same way. Yes many wanted Glen Mason intead of Tressel, but at least Tressel had a successful track record and ties to the program. Brady Hoke? Mike Debord? Kirk Ferentz?


Maybe Martin is just doing a good job at keeping things close to the vest and we will see a good hire like Beilein instead of the names being put out there now (Harvand game did not happen. Harvard game did not happen).

But this is what happens when there is one obvious candidate and apparently little interest in anyone but the Lloyd lites listed above. To suggest that Carr would not pimp his cronies because he loves the program is backwards. There is no greater echo chamber than Lloyd's mind and he thinks that his cronies will be best for the program, so in his mind dashing the possibility of evil Miles for Saint Debord, or Jesus Ferentz, or Joan of Ball State is nothing but his religious mission.

Paranoia completely understandable and justified at this stage. May turn out to be just that, but may turn out to be a nail in the program's coffin. M fans have a right to be concerned.

Out of Conference said...

Well Jake, that's a pretty dick thing to say. How long have you been visiting MZone? If you have been here for more than the 2 minutes it took you to take whatever you wanted out of context from Yost's post, you'd see that Yost is a _huge_ supporter of Brian but his aim is not to emulate Brian's fine work. I even get the impression that Yost doesn't give a rats ass if he gets 4000 comments per post here or not. Notice Yost doesn't run ads and he's not generating revenue here. What he creates, he creates for your viewing pleasure on his dime at no cost to you, while generating no profit for him. Frankly, I like the nice cozy atmosphere here where there is intimate discussions of college footballs and occasionally a scantily clad coed. So Jake, unless I misread your intentions, gfys.

harry hasselhoff said...

First of Yost, I agree with the general gist of your post. People need to chill out! Fortunately, I seriously doubt Bill Martin reads these blogs and has been whipped into the same level of hysteria (hard to get a good Internet connection on a sailboat!)

@Jake: Have you ever read those comment threads at MGoBlog? They consist of the same 10 guys arguing about bullshit.

These are two very, very different blogs. There is not much need to comment on a pic of some hot SEC co-ed wearing next to nothing, whereas Brian's content (which is, by and large, quite good) is more thought--and therefore, comment-- provoking.

beast in 'bama said...

"I know we bloggers are in the business of hyperbole, but Brian's remarks constitute the biggest overreaction and misrepresentation in the history of recorded human existence."

Even bigger than New Coke? Damn.

MGoBlue93 said...

I second OOC

john said...

I'm not familiar with MGoBlog; this is the Michigan blog I read! Bear with a little repetition if you will.

Les Miles coached OkState from 2001through 2004. During those seasons, his results vs. Texas were:

2001 (in Stillwater) - Texas 45, OkState 17; halftime score was 31-10, Texas (Chris Simms lit 'em up for 31 points in the second quarter);

2002 (in Austin) - Texas 17, OkState 15; closest game in the series;

2003 (in Stillwater) - Texas 55, OkState 16; Cedric Benson ran all over them and Vince Young had one of his better games in his redshirt freshman year; we outscored them 41-zip in the second half;

2004 (in Austin) - halftime score, OkState 35, Texas 14; final score, Texas 56, OkState 35; Texas outscored them 42-zip in the second half.

There's a pattern there.

I'm telling you guys, Miles is a good coach, but he's hardly the second coming of Bo or Fielding Yost! He has had the benefit of some outstanding recruiting years under Saban; with the talent LSU has had, anyone could have run up an impressive w/l record.

I don't know what happened on Saturday. I am fairly certain Herbstreit would not have gone on air on his GameDay show with a story he didn't believe was thoroughly sourced, so Miles' on-screen outrage before the SEC championship had a tinny ring to my ears. He may not have been negotiating, but he sure as hell was flirting heavily! I suspect what happened is someone wanted him to fish or cut bait, so they decided to plant a story and the tactic worked. Big deal; it demonstrates Miles is out for Miles and a coach who would diddle LSU around would diddle Michigan around too. He may be a Michigan man, but his eye is on his bank account.

Michigan will find a great coach to continue the Michigan heritage of great coaches and Michigan will be back. Hell, if Texas has another season like this past one, you all are welcome to Mack Brown!

Hook 'em and Go Blue!

John said...






Felix said...

I'd agree that if you look at USC and OSU, if we follow suit then I'm sure things will be fine. Both fan bases had higher profile choices and when they fell through, they had to get coaches that many were not initially happy with.
However, I disagree with your assessment behind there being no "conspiracy theory." The problem is that if you read the very press release that LSU sent out regarding giving Michigan permission to contact LSU was that LSU said themselves that they were not going to talk to Miles until after the SECCG.
This was released last Wednesday: "LSU will have its own meeting with Miles next week to make its pitch to keep Miles. Sources say Miles will be offered a sweetened deal."
So what do you do when LSU acts in bad faith vis-a-vis their own gentlemen's agreement? If LSU was not going to wait until "next week" as they themselves stipulated then doesn't that pretty much make our end of the agreement null and void? What do you do when Les MIles supposedly tries to contact Bill Martin to let him know that he's under the gun?
Look at this quote. This is from LSU's very own press release: ""We're trying to get the SEC championship game behind us that's why we're scheduling these things for next week," Vincent said." In addition, from the official press releases Bill Martin agreed to not contact Les Miles until after the game, but I could not find anything where he agreed to not talk to Les Miles or his agent if THEY were initiating the contact.
So all of the plausible evidence points to either Bill Martin being naive and incompetent (not likely given his stature as a businessman), or at some point he did not want Les Miles and conveniently hid behind this agreement. Now to get someone like Ferentz we'd have to probably pay somewhere in the mid 3 million range or close to 4 million since he's making so much as it is at Iowa....

Jim said...

Thank Bo, MZone is no mgoblog. Who has time to read 4000 comments? As I posted a couple of days ago, the knee-jerk, paranoid hysteria on those boards would be hilarious, if it wasn't so sad. That's not the fanbase I care to be associated with.

The whole attitude couldn't be more annoying. Everybody loves to be the "knowlegable cynic." They love to cluck their tongues and shake their heads and marvel at how naive all the rest of us poor suckers are who don't choke on every random nugget of Internet scuttlebut. I really doubt many people have any hard information on how this search or the contacts with Miles were actually conducted, so 99% of this bluster is just that.

HireTheMonkey said...

Yes, move slowly. Don't implement any speed. True Big Ten mentality.

Ferentz moves slowly, 2.

Moving slowly is what made UM great.

MGoBlog is ten times better than this site. Brian prints everything cuz its a blog and not a freaking newspaper! Its for conversation! How else would we have know LLoyd was killing kittens?

So, all you anal retentive types who support KF--it sucks to be you!

Hire the monkey!

glassyarddog said...

"Don Canham is rolling over in his grave at how Martin conducts University business. Martin is a bean counter pure and simple. Martin is aloof, uninvolved with the University, and distant from the students and alumni."

I could not agree more. Bill Martin appears aloof, uninterested and arrogant.

Get some ba**s and make a move, Billy Boy. Bob Stoops is waiting for a new visor.

And to Les Miles, sorry Billy Boy's cell phone died. He dropped it in the ocean while sailing.

And thank God for Jim Carty's analysis.

927 South State said...

The way we treated Miles is no way to treat one of our own. I know it angered may former players, coaches and alumni. Any why shouldn't it? Miles's agent reaches out and doesn't even get a courtesy phone call back saying we will talk on Sunday -- thereby indicating at least some interest for a guy who is obviously one of our top choices? I think Carr's legacy is being tarnished in the eyes of many Michigan fans by his obvious, overreaching influence on the coaching search. Until a concrete reason is given for why Miles was not given priority, many will continue to have doubts about the competency of the search process. If Martin has problems with Miles' behavior or something he did while an assistant or opposing coach, make it known through some back channels. It is the only way to clear the air on Miles. If it is as good of a reason as they seem to think it is, Michigan fans will gladly move one. But keeping it under wraps generates deserved suspicion and leaves us to believe that the AD just dropped the ball on this one.

CrimeNotes said...

Martin is aloof, uninvolved with the University, and distant from the students and alumni.

As with so much else that's been said during the course of this search, this is insane. Martin is a superb manager. That is his job. It's not to be a figurehead for Michigan sports or drum up excitement. He's not a cheerleader. He's not the administration's ambassador to the fanbase.

Martin has only negotiated an Adidas contract that blew every other school's agreement out of the water, shepherded a $200M+ stadium renovation plan through a pretty hostile process, restored order to an athletic department that was a financial mess under Tom Goss, and concluded a previous major coaching search with a hire that a lot of people apparently think was close to the ideal.

His job is management. I don't always agree with him, but he's been a superb manager. That's how he should be judged.

Miles appeared to be the only exciting candidate that was even being talked about.

People keep throwing around words like "exciting." What exactly is that supposed to mean. It's certainly not a criterion for hiring someone into a position like this. Bob Stoops is not "exciting." Les Miles certainly is, if your style is Russian Roulette and UFC-style press conferences. "Exciting" is pointless. We need competence, not excitement or raw meat.

I'm skeptical of anyone who claims with confidence that they know what makes a great coach, unless they've played ball or been close to a program at this level. We all have different preferences and priorities, and that's fine. But anyone thinking they have the one true answer needs to take a step back. The combination of recruiting, teaching, player development, playcalling and hiring is hard to assess from the outside, not to mention the challenge of keeping teams cohesive where every recruit thinks he's the next star when in reality they'll probably end up second- or third-string, not to mention adhering to all the NCAA regs, and not to mention (near the bottom of the list) having a personality that "excites" fans and alumni.

Some candidates will have strong skillsets in certain areas and others will not. It's often difficult to judge such things without intimate access to a program. Who knew at the start of the season that X/O genius Charlie Weis was incapable of teaching and didn't have kids taking hits in practice?

Obviously we're all entitled to our opinions, but even the smartest among us are probably basing those opinions on imperfect information. A little humility, and a willingness to think that just maybe the Athletic Department has access to some information that you and I, as average fans, simply do not, will go a long way to maintaining sanity. Prospective coaches should be evaluated like a stock, not a castmember of a Michael Bay movie.

"I know Brian and MGoBlog, and trust me, MZone is no MGoBlog."

MGoBlog is great, but it has been taken over by the zombies from 28 Days Later.

Also, what a dumb criticism. Who the hell blindly defers to blogs?

shawn said...

You guys should be happy. Les Miles isn’t a good coach. He has simply been lucky this year with some of the decisions he makes on gameday. You can’t take that many chances on 4th down or fake field goals and expect them to turn out well all the time.
When the talent on the field is equal coaching decisions matter.

Katie said...

Jake, wow man, talk about rude. Yost has never, not even once claimed that this blog is anything but what it is, which btw happens to be quite entertaining and a nice place to voice our opinions on all things Michigan. I am quite sure your post was to "support" Brian, who does have a very informative blog, I don't think that you realize that Yost was not bashing Brian, as much as he is saying, chill folks. And, oh btw, the time he has to put into this space for all of us to have, earns him the right to share his opinion if nothing else. A little respect always goes a long way.

CrimeNotes said...

Don Canham is rolling over in his grave at how Martin conducts University business.

Yeah, right. Because Don Canham loved transparency, hated making money, and only considered household names when considering head football coaches.

r said...

Slightly off-topic: What I find interesting about this whole thing is that I've read comments from a few of Miles' former teammates in support of his hiring. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I haven't read a thing from the guys that played for him. Like I said, maybe I'm wrong, but if not, I think that says something.

On-topic: I agree wholeheartedly with this post. I used to be a regular reader of mgoblog, but over the last couple weeks my distaste for the site has grown exponentially, mostly due to it being overrun with "fans" that think they know more about what's good for the program than those who actually live for the program.

MGoBlue93 said...

It's not to be a figurehead for Michigan sports

Bullshit... The AD is the bellybutton for anything athletic at the school. While I don't expect him to make the preseason water polo tourney (if there is such a thing), I do expect him to keep the sailboat in the slip during bowl games and to keep his cell phone charged and powered on during a coaching search.

Canham transparent? How so... Licensing took off under Canham. With regard to football schedules, Chanham gave us exciting OOC games. Martin gives us Ball State, EMU, and App State because Martin is too freaking chickenshit to accept a home and home with the likes of Auburn or Georgia.

CrimeNotes said...

The AD is the bellybutton for anything athletic at the school.

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.

At the end of the day, the AD's job is about money and management.

Also, if you knew anything about Canham, you'd know that he hated going to Michigan games because he found the experience so stressful. He actually was a sailor himself. A lot of times he'd go out on a boat while Michigan was playing because he couldn't stomach the experience of watching. He spent more time greasing the media and negotiating blockbuster contracts than he did strolling around trying to give comfort to overemotional fans.

Canham transparent? How so...


dirty6 said...

Yost, I think you're spot on in not hyperventilating over the Miles deal. Yeah, this might be shady, this might have been bumbled by UM, sure, your offer (if there was one) got anted up and blown out of the water...But that sounds like a coaching search to me.

Let me take you back a number of years to the exit of one John Cooper at OSU.

The first super, everybody-wants-him-he-is-exciting-because-he-is-winning-an-assload-of-games candidate was Bob Stoops. And before we could really do anything, Oklahoma realized what was going on and gave him a *slight* pay raise. And all the OSU fans said "OOOOHHH teh noooooooz!!! W3 haf b33n PWNED like sum SUCKORZZ!! This iz soooo embarrassing!! Humiliation for OSU!!!! Nuclear Armageddon will start tomorrow!! THE END TIMES FOR OSU FOOTBALL HAVE ARRIVED"

And a bunch of people told the hyperventilating folks to chill the fuck out, there was a search going on.

But the hyperventialitors fired back with some decent logic, "Well look, Stopps turned us down in a hurry, which is embarrassing. Nobody likes rejection. And to make it worse, there are no other decent candidates."

Uh, lets see, who was up for the job. Well there was Glen Mason. They hyperventilators freaked "Are you serious?!?!!? That fool won some games and Kansas, which is Kansas, which is freaking holy hell Kansas, but he has sucked the ass in the Big Ten and doesn't win bowl games. And he is one of Cooper's henchmen!!! OOOOH TEH NOOOOOZ!! MASON IS COMING!!! WE ARE EFFED!!!"

There were some other candidates, but I forget who they were. And then there was the guy that most fans, hyperventilators or rational folks combined, gave much credence to:

Jim Tressel


Rational people "Tress doesn't have a shot, really, he might be a proven championship coach, but that is on a whole other level. *At a place with the tradition of OSU, we will ONLY go after proven, big time winners. That is the luxury of being one of the big boys, you eat at the big table,* and Tress is the featured dish on the kiddie table."

And we all know how this worked out (that's not a jerk statement, I'm just saying, we all see how this turned out for OSU).

So what's my point? Let the damn search do a search. They might not get Stoops, or Miles, but in the long run it WONT be a humiliation (and yes, I know Stoops never did a crazy press conference, but then again, I think Miles was not saying EFF YOU to Michigan as much as he was blasting the press in his presser).

You might be amazed who they come up with. You might be depressed about who they come up with. Fact of the matter is it will take 2-3 years to figure out if it was a good hire or not. So, hyperventilators: CHILL OUT. Like the cop says to the guy fighting the arrest: You're just making this harder on yourself.

Joshua said...

"I like the nice cozy atmosphere here where there is intimate discussions of college footballs and occasionally a scantily clad coed."

Then you might like my place, where we have intimate discussions of college co-eds and occasionally college football.

I'm with you- don't think Miles is dead in the water until he signs that contract or we have a presser with a new coach.

I vote we just make the Sweatervest "all-time coach" kinda like we used to have "all-time QBs" when we were kids.

who are you referring as KF suppporters? Do you even read this blog? Sorry, I'd love to hire the monkey, but it looks like some jackass without a well thought out argument already did, and taught the monkey to type to boot.

Wow. Thought I agreed with the bean counter thing, then Holy f-ing touche! Intelligent discourse makes me happy.

If you look href="http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071205/SPORTS0201/712050403/1004/SPORTS" here there's a quote by a former player of Miles. Only one, but I'd have to believe there's more. If you've got this many ex-players lobbying for a guy there's gotta be something there.

Joshua said...

Or maybe you'd like a working link...

Katie said...

LOL @ Joshua!

maizerulz said...

the wole point is it doesnt matter what lloyd thinks of les miles, it seems thta he has put personal feelings above the program, he obviously wants his guy in there. its no secret that this blog doesnt support miles, maybe if it did there would be a different opinion, i do not care what lloyd carr thinks or wants, he has drug this program down and is now being allowed to continue to do so, its apparent that kirk ferhans is his boy and that frhans will keep the old staff, that should work out great for us ! not!!!!!

whetstonebuck said...

"I vote we just make the Sweatervest "all-time coach" kinda like we used to have "all-time QBs" when we were kids."

Let it be written; let it be done.

Oh, and that's "Coach Sweatervest" from now on.

That should clear up all of this nonsense.

maizerulz said...

it is no secret that this site never supported miles, so it is no suprise that you are now attempting to throw cold water on this situation. its pretty strange that lloyd doesnt like miles and this blew up the way it did. its also strange that lloyds apparent "boy" kirk ferhans is back in the picture, gee, i wonder if ferhans will keep the old staff....gee i wonder ????. further evidence that this has become a personal choice for lloyd and martin is that brian kelley's name never surfaces, it is no secret that martin dislikes kelley. no one in that athl. dept. cares about winning, this program may be down for quite some time following this hire.

Joshua said...

Come on Whets, "The Sweatervest" makes him sound like a superhero or something. Like he should have a sidekick named "Captain Argyle" or "Mr. Fleece".

dirty6 said...

@ Joshua,

Lol, his brother is the running backs coach. Does that count?

whetstonebuck said...


That would be "Kid Corduroy."

Damn! Outed again.

Curse you, Joshua!!

Jason said...

Cue Orson Welles Announcer Voice:

"Ladies and gentlemen, here is the latest bulletin from the Intercontinental Radio News. Toronto, Canada:

Professor Morse of McMillan University reports observing a total of three explosions on the planet Mars, between the hours of 7:45 P. M. and 9:20 P. M., eastern standard time. This confirms earlier reports received from American observatories.

Now, nearer home, comes a special bulletin from Ann Arbor, Michigan. It is reported that at 8:50 P. M. a huge, flaming object, believed to be a the sky, fell on a farm in the small town of Milan, Michigan, twenty-two miles from Ann Arbor.

The flash in the sky was visible within a radius of several hundred miles and the noise of the impact was heard as far north as Traverse City.

We have dispatched a special mobile unit to the scene, and will have our commentator, Carl Phillips, give you a word picture of the scene as soon as he can reach there from Princeton.

Joshua said...


1. It's FERENTZ, not Ferhans. Ferhans is your excuse when you sneak off with the well endowed German girl at Oktoberfest.

For example...
Your buddy: "Dude, where you been? Did you hook up with Helga?"
You: "No, I was looking fer Hans."

2. "It is no secret that Martin dislikes Kelly..." You're so totally right. I also heard he might ask Becky to prom after homeroom.

3."no one in that athl. dept. cares about winning...." Once again you've hit the nail on the head. I thoroughly believe none of them care to win. In related news, I too dislike things that are fun and hope i get a rash in the near future.


r said...


Thank you, I stand corrected.

Spaldo said...

It will all work out. The Wolf is on his way. Now, we just have to figure out who the F the Wolf is.

JULES (Michigan fans)
'Cause if push met shove, you know
I'll take care of business. But push ain't never gonna meet shove.
Because You're gonna solve this
shit for us. You're gonna take our
asses outta the cold and bring it inside where it's warm. 'Cause if
I gotta get into it with my frien about his wife over your boy
Vincent, I'm gonna have bad

MARSELLUS (Bill Martin)
I've grasped that, Jules. All I'm
doin' is contemplating the "ifs."

JULES (Michigan fans)
I don't wanna hear about no
motherfuckin' "ifs." What I wanna
hear from your ass is: "you ain't
got no problems, Jules. I'm on the
motherfucker. Go back in there,
chill them niggers out and wait for
the cavalry, which should be comin'
MARSELLUS (Bill Martin)
You ain't got no problems, Jules.
I'm on the motherfucker. Go back
in there, chill them niggers out
and wait for The Wolf, who should
be comin' directly.

JULES (Michigan fans)
You sendin' The Wolf?

MARSELLUS (Bill Martin)
Feel better?

JULES (Michigan fans)
Shit Negro, that's all you had to

Joshua said...

"...and will have our commentator, Carl Phillips, give you a word picture of the scene..."

What?! No Carl Monday?!! Now we can't even get the first tier reporters. Sheesh.

Joshua said...


I in no way meant to correct you. I remember thinking the same thing and found that article interesting b/c so many former players are supposedly involved.

surrounded in columbus said...

ok- there are two distinct issues going on w/ this- one is whether we really wanted Miles; the other is how we handled the situation over the weekend.

on the first, i politely disagree that he was a bad choice. frankly, hiring someone is a crap shoot- you make your best pick and hope. les had a great familiarity w/ the school, instant name recognition, a good reputation, and BTW- HE'S in the BCS game. was he a lead pipe cinch lock? no, but his credentials are as good as anyone else we're interviewing.

i understand those who'd prefer someone else- but that's not the real problem IMO.

the real problem is how Martin handled things this weekend. first, he had been conducting an ongoing indirect negotiation w/ miles, thru FOF's, for months. they had agreed on a K to the point of compensation and term. w/ all that in place, all that was left was an actual interview and an offer.

w/ all due respect to our beloved Yost, just wtf do you expect to learn in an hour (or 3) interview that you don't already know about someone who's life and coaching career is a public record??? does he use the correct fork w/ his salad? does he unbutton his suit coat when he sits down? honestly, i wonder what it is about his coaching style, honesty, or general personality you expect to discover in a face to face?

if bill bellichek calls tomorrow and says he wants to take the job, but you have to offer it to him right now, do you really think you need an interview to "make sure" he really knows football???

point is that Martin was up to his neck negotiating w/ Les & his agent. when espn broke the story, he should have known things were going to "happen". but JHC, he didn't even return Bass's calls! it would have been one thing to call Bass back and say: "i think we want him but i just can't pull the trigger until Mary Sue talks to him". at least we wouldn't have left him hanging. but to be asleep at the switch?

BTW- anyone know where our beloved AD was when Tom Brady led us to the overtime win over Bama in the Orange Bowl?? yeah, he was sailing. as an alum, he was offered choice bowl ticks, but he turned them down to go sailing. don't get me wrong- i used to sail- it's great. but truth is we have an AD that rather sail than watch michigan play in the orange bowl. apparently, his tastes haven't changed much.

Feelin' Blue said...

I went crazy, I'll admit, even though I did take the reports with a grain of salt. I think we know nothing. We know nothing about Ferentz, Hoke, Miles, or anyone else for that matter. I was frustrated with what seems like a slow pace and inaction on the part of the Mich AD, but what's the point? We'll get a coach, and hopefully he'll be really good. I still like my candidates that I list, and hopefully the Mich AD will look at them.

I'm worried about the Citrus Bowl. I worry about Michigan putting on a mediocre performance again. I'm worried that Mike Debord will not prepare and run the same 5 plays. I'm worried that the D won't prepare and will let Tebow run all over them.

I just hope that the Mich coaching staff is preparing the team for this game--mentally, physically, and strategically. If we beat Florida, who was public enemy #1 last year after Urban Meyer whined to get his team into the champ game, then that could overshadow the App St disaster and the disappointing performance against OSU, and really end the season and Lloyd's career on a really high note. Maybe people would think that Michigan can be an elite program again.

But the bowl game must matter to the coaches and the team or Michigan will be humiliated again.

beast in 'bama said...


You can't see me right now, but I am standing, and I am clapping. Loudly.

A Royale with cheese for you, motherfucker!

beast in 'bama said...

Oh, and the Wolf says,"That's thirty minutes away. I'll be there in ten.

Katie said...

I must thank you all, this thread has provided me with endless entertainment today, Funny shit!

surrounded in columbus said...

well, even in his own words, yacht boy martin doesn't sound very "on top of things":


Mikoyan said...

How can anyone say Lloyd drug this program down with a straight face? Admittedly Tressel has been giving him fits but he's been at or near the top of the Big 10 how many years now? He didn't have a good Bowl record but neither did the great Bo. He did however do something that Bo didn't...Namely, he won a championship.

Lloyd 121 - 40 0.752 5-7 Bowls
Bo 234-65-8 0.782 5-12 Bowls

So I would hardly say he dragged the program down.

Les 61 - 27 0.693
Stoops 96 - 20 0.827
Da Vest 208-72-2 .741
Yost 197 - 35 - 12 (about .83)

As for the next coach, we'll see.

Spaldo said...

I'm a firm believer that EVERY situation can be related to Pulp Fiction dialogue. For example, in this exchange, Marsellus is Les Miles, Butch is Bill Martin, and Kirk Herbstreit is Zed

BUTCH (Bill Martin)
You okay?

Naw man. I'm pretty fuckin' far
from okay!

Long pause.
BUTCH (Bill Martin)
What now?
What now? Well let me tell you
what now. I'm gonna call a couple
pipe-hittin' niggers, who'll go to
work on homes here with a pair of
pliers and a blow torch.
(to Zed -- Herbstreit) Hear me talkin' hillbilly boy?! I
ain't through with you by a damn
sight. I'm gonna git Medieval on
your ass.
BUTCH (Bill Martin)
I meant what now, between me and
Oh, that what now? Well, let me
tell ya what now between me an'
you. There is no me an' you. Not
no more.
BUTCH (Bill Martin)
So we're cool?
Yeah man, we're cool. One thing I
ask -- two things I ask: don't
tell nobody about this. This
shit's between me and you and the
Mr. Rapist here. It ain't nobody
else's business. Two: leave town.
Tonight. Right now. And when
you're gone, stay gone. You've
lost your Los Angeles (BCS!?) privileges. Deal?
BUTCH (Bill Martin)

The two men shake hands, then hug one another.
Go on now, get your ass outta here.

CrimeNotes said...

Holiday-themed movie analogy: A highly vocal contingent of Michigan fans wanted a Red Rider BB-gun for Christmas. Martin & Co. did not want them to shoot their eyes out. They are now in pink rabbit costumes with no BB gun, and they are pissed beyond belief.

whetstonebuck said...

Everytime you hear a BB hit a Michigan fan's eye another Buckeye gets his wings. Wait. No. Crap, wrong holiday movie.

Spaldo said...

Get a load of this, straight from Bill Martin himself. I'm sorry, but the guy is REALLY of touch and the fact that Miles' tried to reach out to Michigan through his agent and was rebuffed is disgraceful. I'm no Miles advocate, but come on.


Spaldo said...


ChicagoWolverine said...

If it is true that Miles' agent contact Martin more than once on Friday -- I think under the construct of the will not contact clause it's still okay to return a phone call and say I can't talk to you about this until after Saturday. I think that's just a courteous response after a second phone call, it was clearly urgent. If Martin couldn't figure out by the happs of the week and repeated calls that stuff was going down with Miles, he's not a very good business man.

dabearbus said...

Why is everyone glossing over the notion that Lloyd Carr has a say in the coaching search with comments that essentially amount to "Who cares what Lloyd thinks", etc. Hello? Has anyone been watching these past few seasons. This program doesn't need a new head coach, it needs a complete overhaul, and the reason such drastic change is necessary is without a doubt Lloyd Carr.

Exhibit A: A coaching and training staff that is so inbred people in West Virginia are starting to think it's a little disturbing. This is a guy we could care less about choosing the future of the program? One who never fires an ineffective friend? Don't get me wrong. I'd love to have a boss who is a friend like that, but to quote Bob Sugar "it's not show-friends it's show-business." Having Lloyd involved in this is a big issue and a bigger mistake. To illustrate his complete inability to keep up with the game as it stands today I give you the UM strength and conditioning coach, Mike Gittleson. He's been employed in this capacity for so many years I've lost count (wait, I went to Michigan, not tOSU, so I can count… 30, 30 years!). Nothing in the game has changed that might effect how to approach things from a strength and conditioning perspective? Nothing? Really? And this is just one example. To put this in perspective, Tressel at tOSU has changed his out in 2005. This is two short years after winning a national title. Now that's show-business. I respect loyalty, but not at the cost of a program you claim to want what's best for. The stated goal of Tressel's hire btw, "More and more in college football, speed is an element that separates good teams from great teams." Well this implies some adjustment to the changing dynamics of the game, so you know Carr didn't say it. But, don't worry folks. Don't be concerned that Carr has a hand (and if you listen to Brian, which I do, a big one) in determining the future of our program. Tressel and Carroll may have been second or third choice candidates, but they weren't making any excuses for friends of theirs who were also ineffective coaches, let alone keeping them on staff. If you let Lloyd decide, you’ll get a second or third tier guy, but unlike Tressel or Carroll, they’ll be loyal as hell. That isn’t a good thing.

Lots of criticism of Miles has circulated on this site, so I want to point on thing out that pertains to my above concerns. I know this has been mentioned elsewhere, but seems to be generally ignored here. Miles is a guy who, while I agree is more than a little rough around the edges (both personality wise and in terms of some game-management issues well documented on this blog) has never been afraid to go out and get the best coaching staff for the job, no matter where they are from or who they know, etc. It's a big reason why he has been so successful at LSU (no, it's not all Saban's recruits UF and Dawg fans).

Miles vs. top-tier opponents? Since you asked, I'll bite. Someone pointed out Miles' record against Texas at Oklahoma State. Fine, granted. That being said though, what kind of recruiting power did he have at a program like OK State? One of the theories (and one I believe to be more than plausible, especially given comments at the Lloyd Carr retirement press conference about the “recruiting trail”) is that the rift between Miles and Carr was exacerbated by bumping heads over recruits, especially the past couple seasons, while Miles has been at LSU. He's a great recruiter when given the tools, and his efforts stole some guys away from Lloyd Carr. Give Miles the kind of program and history that you can sell to recruits (like at UM or LSU as opposed to OK State) and he'll recruit "a damn fine football team," which shows up during big games (see LSU/Florida game this year). I haven't seen those kind of OK St. vs. Texas performances at LSU, have you? Why should those games be cause for concern then?

One last reason I like Miles and fell so hard for him and I’ll get off it. You have to love the guys' swagger. With Miles you get quotes like "Damn fine football team" and better yet, a sideline reporter asks "And how do you plan to accomplish that coach", Miles response: "We're going to kick ass." C'mon, you love it. What did he say? Nothing, and that’s the point. Many of you are thinking: "We're going to kick ass? What kind of response is that?" Exactly. He gives zero information, just like Lloyd does when he sports his sly smile after leaving the halftime interview with Bonnie Bernstein. You know that little grin every Michigan fan has come to hate (especially when you are frantically trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with Henne/Hart/your life for caring so much). And best yet, it doesn't make ESPN headlines for being a d-bag, AND it does motivate the team. Let's be honest here, players are cocky as hell. I love Mike Hart, but even he gets me to the point sometimes when I think to myself: "Shut up, please. For the love of God! You haven't beat tOSU in three tries, why do you want to give them bulletin board material when you're an underdog in your fourth and final attempt AND when you're injured no less?!?! You're smarter than that Mike!" And this is Mike Hart. Not Mario, not Crable. What I'm getting at here is players are that way, you have to believe they are drawn to coach who has a little bit of cocky ass in them too (see: Pete Carroll, Spurrier, etc.)

Look, clearly I'm a big Miles fan, and I realize the point of the post was not to debate candidates and whether or not Miles was the guy or not, but you can't blame people for being a little concerned when they're talking Hoke (a former Michigan assistant under Moeller and Carr, for whoever implied he has no ties to UM). You have to realize how big a hand Carr has in this and what a "loyal" guy he is. I agree with whoever said that if we were considering Brian Kelly, or Petrino or another semi-big name coach with a proven record you wouldn't be getting this kind of panic from the maize and blue faithful. But the fact of the matter is, we aren't talking to those guys, so here we are. Let's face it, Ferentz, Hoke, DeBord, these are Carr's guys. He's calling more shots than anyone outside the athletic department realizes, and to hear "it doesn't matter" just steams me up, and not in a good way. We need to start talking seriously about the negative impact Carr is going to have on this whole thing so some other people (namely former players/alumni donors, etc) step in and take control. Think what you will of me. Take and leave what you care to from this rant of a comment, but whatever you do, don't underestimate Lloyd's influence OR the potential consequences.

CrimeNotes said...

The idea that Carr can anoint his successor is ludicrous.

Carr has a seat at the table, I'm sure. He's probably one of about a dozen people whose input is taken seriously. There are many people with veto power over Martin's ultimate decision, including Coleman and eight regents. Carr does not have that power. Realistically, the most he could do in protest is not take an assistant AD position and quietly slink away; he's not going to hold a press conference denouncing the hire and start a civil war.

No one has handed him the keys. I'm sure that Martin et al. take his input seriously, as they should. This idea that he has some kind of omnipotence or stranglehold over the process is, along with the bizarre fixation (see my comments above) on Bill Martin's sailing hobby, flat-out crazy.

It is awesome, though, to see paranoia and baseless speculation in response to a post suggesting people cool off a little. Thank God that Michigan isn't run like a democracy.

Feelin' Blue said...

Paul Johnson is probably going to SMU. He's a great coach. Watch SMU dominate C-USA and possibly turn them into the next Boise St. Michigan is losing out on a great candidate, unless he is in fact on Bill Martin's list.

MGoBlue93 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MGoBlue93 said...

The Christmas Story analogy is the funniest thing I have read in a long time... good show!

TitleIX said...

ok first off...
drag as verb: the correct conjugation is “drag/dragged/dragged”; “drug” as past tense is substandard and just reads poorly (note that I did not write bad which would suck just as much as drug)


FUMBLE at the 1!!!!!
and, LSU recovers.

boom goes the Martin-ite

Katie said...

Colt Brennan for Heisman!!! The Hawaii hottie is one of the 4 finalists! ( Since it can't be Mike)

Back to your regularly scheduled hilarity.

WingRG said...

Reportedly Florida's starting DE was arrested for throwing a sandwich at a fast food worker (i would love to have been there, to witness the Farva-like exchange at the fast food joint). He's being HELD WITHOUT BOND. I bet you after Teflon Urban makes a phone call all charges will be dropped, and they guy will start the bowl game.

Flop said...

You do realize that by not being bold enough to call for burning the program and all that it stands for to the ground, favoring integrity and not taking the fact that Michigan hasn't hired the coach of your dreams personally, you're just enabling all that Midwestern mediocrity that has been keeping us down (in Pasadena, mostly) for the past decade or so.

Honestly, I don't know how you live with yourself.

maizerulz said...

joshua, i really dont care how you spell ferentz, i spell it "l-o-s-e-r !!

jane said...

i agree with the sentiment posted originally in general

martin has some question marks but he did what Bollinger hired him to do... which was turn athletics into a self supporting fiscally sound unit. I do question some of his athletic type wisdom and have from the start, Folks need to stop blaming lloyd for the current situation.. yes he will advise, as will other folks, probably including some academic and student affairs folks.

none of us will really know what happened or didn't happen, and who messed up, if anyone. I don't have the issue of integrity and honesty martin was trying to display. I do question his unavailability at a crucial time though.

i do worry that we will make a bad choice and aren't thinking broadly enough (please no ferentz....) but as reminder, while i love my football, Michigan's reputation far exceeds the football field unlike many other schools.

I'd rather have the University respected on the whole, for its primary mission, than just worry ing about the football program.

jane said...

oh one last note, Martin was NOT the AD at the time of the Orange Bowl with brady. He was not appointed to the position until March 2000 by Lee Bollinger, and at that time, it was an interim appointment.

Out of Conference said...

Spaldo 11:17 - to add to that bit,
(I;m going from memory here)

Jimmy (Michigan Nation, about why Miles can't coach there): "Did you see a sign in my front yard that said, 'Dumb Coach Storage'? Hell no. Because I'm not in the business of storing dumb coaches!

Feelin' Blue said...

Now watch the Jim Grobe circus. Everyone thinks that he's going to Arkansas. And I just read an article in ESPN that Arkansas just wanted him badly. See? Nothing's final. He hasn't told anyone about the move. This is all hype, and it's just like what has been happening with Les Miles. I would like to have Jim Grobe at UM.

Out of Conference said...

I just saw on the mothership that Grobe was staying at Wake.

surrounded in columbus said...

i never said he was the AD during the orange bowl. he was an alum. he was offered choice tickets. he turned them down to go sailing.

i am sure he attends bowls now as a part of his job.

as a fan? he'd rather go sailing.

that's our AD. he's a good business man.

he sucks as a sports man.

Crunk said...

um could get Bill Parcels and Phil Jackson and it wouldn't matter. The um athletic department is a bigger joke than Nebraska's.

John said...

"whetstonebuck said...

Everytime you hear a BB hit a Michigan fan's eye another Buckeye gets his wings. Wait. No. Crap, wrong holiday movie.

December 05, 2007 12:58 PM"

I believe its "Everytime you hear a donut hit a Michigan fan's eye...

mrnotebook said...

I like your blog I didnt know where to start out my comment first I just did on an old post I am a stranger to you hope you dont mind me commenting.
I am a Wolverine fan as well. Michigan shouldn't even waisted their time contacted Les Miles after the Jerk off speech of his on that Saturday. Michigan needs a Loyal Coach who is willing to coach the team. I though Les was such a good coach until he made that speech of his. By the way maybe you can check out my site it's not the best looking site around but I try to do my best on it And but improvements will be made this month on my blog. mrnotebook.blogspot.com