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Monday, December 10, 2007

Just pick somebody already

Seems legions of Michigan fans who clamored for Lloyd Carr's head every year except those in which he didn't go undefeated are now in an uproar over the coaching search. U-M, in their eyes, has blown the best in Miles and been blown off by a guy who never was really interested to begin with in Schiano.

But why are they so worried? I thought anybody could do it.

I mean, wasn't that the knock on Lloyd? That with the talent the Wolverines always had, the weak Big Ten, the melting of the polar ice caps and really cool helmets, any sap who ever watched Madden Football on an XBox could lead the maize and blue to just five Big Ten titles and one national title in 13 years. Anybody.

So what does it matter who we get, as long as it's not someone on Lloyd's staff, right? I mean, if fucking Lloyd Carr - you know, Lllloyd - can never have a losing season, why are Michigan fans losing sleep. The good news is, whoever we get, it'll be ABC - Anybody But Carr. Good Christ, don't these people understand that simply by being ABC, we're guaranteed 9 wins next season?

So why all the sky is falling articles in the Detroit papers and panic on the Michigan websites? Just replace Carr and get on with it. The hard part is over. Sheesh. Any idiot can take it from here.


Katie said...

You sound a bit frustrated my friend. I can understand that. I hope that things in your world are simply just busy and not anything serious. You are in my thoughts! Peace.

It will be quit interesting to see the comments on this post! Gentlemen, start your engines!

MGoBlue93 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Katie said...

It didn't 93, things are just in mayhem and "the sky is falling" routine is really getting old to me. As with any elite program, there are those (particularly in the media) who are relishing in making every step in this process look bad for Michigan. It just makes one shake their head. The implosion of the fan base just adds fuel to the fire. meh. Don't get me on that soap box again today....ha!

MGoBlue93 said...

Perhaps the forum can help me out. I was away from the net, working on papers, and I see the scuttlebutt about Schiano. Why are some folks so bent about this guy? I thought Schiano is holding out for State Penn (when JoePa steps down)?! If Schiano has no intention of leaving RU right now, how could he have supposedly spurned Michigan?

MGoBlue93 said...

Katie... I promise not to get you going. But I have to wonder, what the hell would have happened in A2 if the internet was around when Bo was hired?

Katie said...

LOL, I am just that good, that I could answer 93 before he even posted a comment. ROFL!

MGoBlue93 said...

In fact, I think I'm going to stay the hell away from the internet. It's finals time, I'm tired of election 2008 crap, all the news sucks, and the shots at Michigan weak at best... well except for the shots at Martin, I have no problem with those.

MGoBlue93 said...

oops... I had a deleted post in there. It's hard to edit at 5:30 AM. My dogs refused to left me sleep last night.

Katie said...

I hear you 93! I think that is partly my issue, trying to get through the end of the term and then listen to the load of crap that continues to be plastered around the net about my beloved Michigan. I think it is sad really. You might have a good plan of action, just stop reading it! Good luck with your finals!

TitleIX said...

You all will be happy to know that BM was hiding out at the Women's B-ball game Saturday night.
Guess the hockey game would have been too dangerous??

MGoBlue93 said...

Thanks for the scoop T9... I didn't think BM got out at all. BTW, props to the volleyball team for making the sweet 16. They were bounced from the tourney by a #1 State Penn squad. nevertheless congrats ladies on a fine season!

Exley said...

It'll all work out in the end... wasn't Tressel like OSU's third chocie?

Devil said...

"So what does it matter who we get, as long as it's not someone on Lloyd's staff, right? I mean, if fucking Lloyd Carr - you know, Lllloyd - can never have a losing season, why are Michigan fans losing sleep. The good news is, whoever we get, it'll be ABC - Anybody But Carr. Good Christ, don't these people understand that simply by being ABC, we're guaranteed 9 wins next season?"

Substitute "Willingham" for "Carr," and I think I've read this before.

Buck4aReason said...

Many (on a National level) are saying Michigan's arrogance is what is keeping them from landing a top coaching prospect. Because of the NAME and TRADITION, they feel they don't have to pay their coaches comparably (like other TOP programs).

Notre Dame thought that too. They ended up with Charlie Weiss and Florida landed Urban Meyer. Which one paid off in the end?

I think there is some truth in this. Even though I'm a Bucks fan, I respect UM and DON'T want to see Michigan end up an embarrassment. like ND.

Andy said...

Pete Carroll was USC's 4th choice. The Trojan fans wanted to execute AD Mike Garrett on the spot.

Chesty McSweaterVest was at least choice #2 for the buckeyes (behind Mike Bellotti).

Bo was Michigan's 2nd choice after Joe Paterno said "No thanks" to Don Canham.

We are going to be fine. Everyone just needs to chill.

Jim said...

The whole "pay them less because we're Michigan" thing seems completely illogical to me. We should pay MORE because we're Michigan--bigger resources, more scrutiny, higher risk. Perhaps it's more likely that the administration is just used to getting the typical discount that comes from highering from within? Either way, they need to snap out of it. Since when is this program cash-poor?

Bottom line: you get what you pay for.

surrounded in columbus said...


you say: "Any idiot can take it from here."????

how lucky for us as that is exactly who we have handling for us.

the sky is not falling. we still have a lot of candidates available. some of the best ones might be people we haven't even thought of yet (someone who comments here keeps mentioning chuck martin of gvsu- good example). and yes, tosu (and other programs) had the same issues when they hired a coach.

however, all that said, we look f'ing stupid. we can't call Les' agent back because Martin didn't know that LSU said it was "ok" to talk to Bass? sorry but that's inexcuseable.

Martin "runs into" Shiano @ a banquet, talks to him for 5 hours, and makes him an offer (albeit a soft offer, but unless Shiano is lying, an offer all the same), w/ out even talking to Rutger's AD? sorry, but that looks like a double standard AND, the pick looks very random.

on some level, whoever we hire, the program will be "alright". even mike debord will be only marginally worse than lloyd. however, martin's actions (or inaction) and his stated reasons for those actions, look pretty stupid. no matter how successful the final coach ends up being.

Feelin' Blue said...

I've won 3 consecutive nat'l championships in NCAA 07. Just sayin'.

surrounded in columbus said...

feelin' blue,

if you are willing to keep the existing assistants? word is you could be in the running.

Josey said...

I couldn't agree more. Carr was only one game under .500 against OSU. Yeah, he got "outcoached" several times by Jim Tressel but that isn't exactly a fair standard. Carr doesn't call plays, on offense, like Tressel does and isn't the offensive coordinator either. Carr isn't Spurrier or Tressel and shouldn't be judged by those standards. Programs get tied up too much with statements, and I think Carr was a statement by UM (mostly the fanbase) that WE ARE MICHIGAN, WE DONT LOSE TO APP STATE, someone has to go. Really it should have been Bill Martin to go for scheduling them. For the type of coach Carr was he was one of the best. Carr + English should have gone forward and Deboard should have gone. Most every UM fan I know is tired of Michigan's offense as much as anything. In this age of CFB no team should be firing a steady coach to face uncertainty. What's the cliche?, "The Devil you know is worse than the Devil you don't". Look at Notre Dame and Alabama. Actually look at Nebraska. They had a great coach, a solid one who was fired, then a complete failure. Michigan could do much worse than Carr, and they just might.

Josey said...



I hope you guys CRUSH Florida.

Buck4aReason said...

I just hope there is NO inclination to interview Bill Callahan. I hear he is still available.

The way Michigan fans clamor for more offense I'm worried BM might be tempted to extend an interview.

As a Buckeye myself, I'd be VERY fearful of him implementing his dreaded "spread offense" against my favorite team! Hee, hee.

Buck4aReason said...

BTW, I hope your team can manage a win against Florida SO BAD. Those Gator fans are quite annoying with their 41-14 mantra.

They seem to forget about '95 when their team was clobbered 62-24 by Nebraska in the "NCG". They also seem to forget the SEC went 0-3 in the other Big Ten-SEC matchups last year.

I just wonder if the Buckeyes beat LSU this year if that gives tOSU fans the right to go on and on ad nauseam about that fact, regardless of how the other Big Ten teams do against the SEC.

Anyway, good luck this year!

Mikoyan said...

So here's the solution...maybe we could do something like Last Starfigher (God...I'm dating myself here). Strategically place some Play Stations or X-Boxes out of likely places to find coaches. If one of them starts to play, award points like this:
+10 If he makes the running back go up the middle
+100 if he calls the wide reciever reverse at least once in the game
-10 if he uses the spread offense
-100 if he uses an option
+5 if he's passing on third down
+1000 for predictibly running on first down
-10000 if he does something other than punt on 4th down

Mikoyan said...

Or maybe we can take a page from the Royal Navy of old and just club our favorite coach over the head. Put him on a ship and tell him has no choice but to coach for Michigan.

SteveUofM said...

Michigan athletic director Bill Martin appears to be an extremely passive athletic director with a lax staff.

He has not aggressively pursued candidates for this football position.

Things are starting to add up in that office. If you look into the incident involving a player who was ineligible to play earlier in the year, you can see the "misinterpretation of the rules" was clearly incompetence by that office. No other Big Ten school had that problem.

This issue with U of M stadium not being accessible to handicap people was a national embarrassment. Even if the feds were wrong (and I'm not saying they were) you actively work with them so that a story like that doesn't get printed.

Last spring, the Michigan baseball team upset the number one team in the country -- Vanderbilt. Oregon also upset a number 1 seed. Michigan and Oregon were in the same bracket and Michigan was ranked higher. The team should have hosted its first super-regional in baseball history.

But the game was played at Oregon. Why? Because as Gary Thorne said on national television, Michigan's baseball stadium was being renovated.

The Big Ten baseball tournament was held in Battle Creek in the 1990s and was a success. There were a number of other in-state venues that could have been used to help the local economy and give the baseball team the home-field advantage it had earned with the higher rank.

But it would have taken some extra paperwork by the Athletic Director, who was probably taking an early summer vacation.

I would be reluctant to take a job at Michigan given the way the athletic department can’t get its act together.

James said...

My choices would be:

Bill Cowher (kids near college age, and Michigan is a great education)

Butch Davis (he has to want to move up from North Carolina)

Either one of those would be dynamite.

TitleIX said...

seriously dude, you have no clue how the athletic dept works if you post a statement like that.

here's a clue:
First, the stadium as it existed for this season WAS ADA compliant, with exemptions. to say it's not handicapped accessible is just false.
the University's claim on the stadium renovation is that the ORIGINAL structure, ie the BOWL BUILT INTO THE GROUND, is not being touched/renovated/updated in any way, therefore it should be exempt from the ADA requirements. Any new structures being ADDED to the original ARE ADA compliant.
Why not renovate/upgrade the bowl?
Because to do so would require a complete and entire re-work of the base structure of the stadium: ie, building a whole new one.

The U has been in discussion with the DoE for over 2 years now trying to work thru the requirements/logistics and was already in continuous dialogue.
The reason why it's in the paper now? Because one of Sam Bernstein's kids (who qualifies for ADA coverage himself) filed suit against the university pushing the issue.
Don't know the name Sam Bernstein?
He's a huge med malpractice atty in SE Michigan and Florida.
The U was trying to work thru the ADA requirements, albeit to its own interests and advantages, as any builder would, when outside interests made it a political hot potato.

Baseball stadium renovation???
Have you been there???
Do you realize the risk to the public and the liability mess there would have been to hold a tournament there with active construction going on???

You couldn't play a game at The Big House today either, because the schedule for all stadium renovations is tight, and starts immediately after the season is completed--be it football, softball, or baseball...

no one could have predicted Michigan's run in the NCAA Baseball tourney. So what if you miss one year due to construction? If the team keeps winning next year, then I'll bet there will be a tourney game here---in a beautiful new stadium for all to see/praise.

but gosh, enough with the trashing of Michigan and the athletic dept.
as Andy says

SteveUofM said...

You did not read my post or state the facts carefully.

It was people in the federal government itself that claimed Michigan was not complaint.

And my post stated simply that, even if they were wrong, Michigan should have been working with the proper people. Your claim that the people in the office were doing that is simply false.

With regard to the Michigan baseball stadium, I pointed out that the baseball team has played in other in-state venues other than on its own campus. And contingency arrangements should have been made even before the baseball season began. You make contingency arrangements even if certain teams are not exptected to be in the tournament at season's end.

At least you did not write about, but did ignore, the absolute incompentence in "misinterpreting Big Ten rules" for a freashman that could have cost Michgian a big ten footbll game and was highly embarrasing to say the least.

WingRG said...


Tressel was not the first choice (behind Stoops, and some others), but he was never behind Bellotti. When Bellotti interviewed, he asked a question along the lines of:

"So, do you guys play Michigan every year?"

Needless to say (especially after Cooper's failure to beat UM) OSU wasn't going to hire a coach that didn't understand the importance of the OSU-UM game, or that didn't know that the rivalry was a yearly occurrence :-)

surrounded in columbus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
surrounded in columbus said...


i realize some of the complaints about Martin, combined w/ the conspirarcy theories surrounding Lloyd have been over the top. i agree people, including myself, need to be balanced about this coaching search.

but "Chill"? altogether? sorry but i can't agree. even if you're not a fireman, shouting "fire" when you actually see a burning building is sometimes helpful nonetheless.

when former players give interviews in the mainstream press to complain about developments, i don't think commenting on a blog, or registering similar complaints is inappropriate. not complaining is tantamount to agreeing, and i can't agree w/ what Martin's done so far.

second, "trashing" Bill Martin for specific acts he has committed is NOT the same as trashing Michigan or the athletic department. he's a single person whose job happens to be exactly to handle things like hiring a coach. he's screwed up. no, that doesn't justify saying he's evil incarnate, but there's nothing wrong in pointing out that he's not handled his first couple of prospects well. don't see why alums shouldn't voice their opinion, here or anywhere else, as to the desire to see him handle things differently.

and yes, i do think complaining helps. if all the negative comments voiced so far accomplish nothing else, i'll bet he doesn't go sailing again for a while. that in itself is a benefit.

but, i'll try to be more patient. this could certainly turn out well. i switched my pic to that of a puppy, just so as to remind me of "happy thoughts" the next time i go to type. maybe Yost will supply us w/ pics of half naked attractive people or mustachioed tosu fans/players arrested for unspeakable crimes, and that will provide a distraction during this search.

i'll take any straw @ this point.

Andy said...


History will be kind to me for I intend to write it. (Winston Churchill)

Cooper was hired because it was believed that he could beat Michigan (like he did for Arizona State in the 1987 Rose Bowl). I believe that he understood the importance of the rivalry; his players just did not.

Unless you are Andy Geiger, I seriously doubt that you have any idea about the type of questions Bellotti asked during his January 2001 visit to Ohio. The Oregon Daily Emerald reported that Bellotti visited, interviewed, and withdrew his name from consideration prior to Tressell wandering into town and weaving his magic spell on the program.

TitleIX said...


there's a difference between noting a fire and reporting it in a calm, rational manner
screaming there's a fire-breathing dragon on state street and it's heading this way.....

which is how some of these posts and media monologues are starting to sound.

TitleIX said...


"I would be reluctant to take a job at Michigan given the way the athletic department can’t get its act together."

good thing you weren't offered a position, huh?

Joshua said...



(Or sneak the pizzas out of the Cottage Inn delivery truck, heard he left it unlocked when he went running....*cough*south quad*cough*.)

p.s. Don't make T-9 angry. You wouldn't like her when she's angry.

surrounded in columbus said...

You are absolutely correct- the media, bloggers, & commenters who have boot strapped the non hiring of Miles & refusal by Shiano into some overall comment on the program or general portent of doom are way off base. That said, what did we expect? We are one of the biggest names in football, a mere decade from our last MNC & Heisman winner, & all time winningest program. Our last 5-7 seasons have been blah, we lost to App St, & the world has speculated about Carr's retirement like he wa a Pope on his death bed. On top of all that, this still prestigous job is now open to the "public" for the first time since 1968. We're big news & every aspect of this process is going to be reported, analyzed, & discussed in detail, at least until the bowls start.

That's why Martin's performance to date is so upsetting. For the AD @ michigan, this the Heisman, MNC, & tosu game all rolled into one. And how has he started? He doesn't look like he "came to play", "started out flat", and "doesn't seem motivated".

He couldn't have thought that NOT landing Les, after all the hype, wasn't going to be news. He couldn't think that pitching the job to Shiano, a few days after Miles resigning w/ LSU, wasnrt going to make headlines. All of the "michigan aint what she used to be" stories are rooted, given a shadow of truth, by his sloppy handling of these two coaches. He looks like an amateur AD, who rather be sailing than watching football on Saturday. If he hadn't fumbled this so far, we wouldn't have the stories we have had.

Granted it's the first quarter. He has plenty of time to right the ship.

The sky may not be falling, but his stock as AD is.

TitleIX said...

agreed re: the AD stock

ps--he was hanging out at the Women's BBall game again tonight with his wife.
Safest place in Ann Arbor I suppose. Unless you are the opposing team.
The Michigan Women's b-ball team destroyed USC tonight.

Leave it to the women to beat the big-named teams..... ;-)


Katie said...

T9, perfect way to describe it, there is a huge difference in calmly reporting a fire and freaking out about a fire breathing dragon. You said what I have been trying to say here for the past 2 days. *sigh*

And leave it to Joshua to run screaming....LOL!

SIC, I love the puppy dog, he is so adorable!

Joshua said...

Ok, where to start-

I feel your pain brother. Lloyd was a wonderful coach and the man's stewardship of the program was marked by integrity and class. If he is standing true to his ideals and values it would not surprise me in the least that he'd fight tooth and nail against certain candidates- the man is simply standing up for what he believes in.

That having been said, had he won more often in bowl games or against the Sweatervest he'd still be roaming the sidelines and this conversation would be moot. There are valid reasons he is gone, and though I hope that level of class continues with the next staff, it was simply time for him to move along. Given his previous post and reputation, anyone who thinks he doesn't have a significant voice in this hire is kidding themselves. But just as it was time for him hang up his whistle, I think he needs to realize the program is stale and needs an infusion of new blood and fresh thinking. Promoting from within will not bring that.

We are arrogant, but that's not to say we're poor sports. If the general consensus on this board does not say that we- as an institution- hold ourselves to a higher ideal than I'd be extremely surprised. Class is expected. Poor sportsmanship is not tolerated and we call out those around us who exhibit it. The very definition of arrogance is "an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions". Overbearing manner? Have you ever sat near the Bluehairs in the Big House? Or met an over 50 graduate of Michigan Law? I think we can check that one off the list. Presumptuous claims or assumptions? We've got that covered, too. We expect to be different, to be better, to be Leaders and Best. At least I know I do.

Oooh. Good point man. Precisely why we can't botch this hire.

as I said yesterday, I don't expect public disclosure of behind the scenes action- but when you have prominent former players wondering aloud what's going on then that is NOT a good sign. If BM screws this up both he and the next head coach will be looking for employment in a few years, and The Hat will be roaming the sidelines for sure, good thing or not.

If you know any women who are equally adept at talking both football AND finance on your level will you please ask them what cut of diamond they like? I can have a ring by the weekend.

Carr getting "outcoached" by the Sweatervest is a fair standard. It's his job to win, whether he makes the calls or hires the guy who makes the calls.

Florida whipped you, that gives them holy license to give you all the hell they want. Period. You can do the same if pull out a can on LSU. There's a reason the "Scoreboard" chant was invented. It's the same as my best friend marrying a girl I made out with while we were in college. For the rest of my life I have the ultimate comeback, and no matter what he says all I have to say is.......

"You do realize I made out with your wife, right?"

True story.

Joshua said...


I usually only run screaming after tall brunettes. For brunettes of average height, redheads and blondes I simply race-walk. (Cause everyone knows race-walking is mad sexy.)

Katie said...

Joshua, the question then becomes, do they go screaming running after you? :P

WingRG said...

fair enough, i know a student who was on that search committee that interviewed Belotti, Mason, and Tressel (i'm pretty sure they didn't actually interview Stoops). I heard it second hand, and i try my source for his no reason to lie.
As far as Belotti withdrawing his candidacy, that doesn't mean that he was offered the job or was on the "wanted" list higher than Tressel. Just means he elected to stay where he was.

I loved the Churchill quote, though, that's very true.

Breaston154LIFE said...

On a money comment from whoever posted it, I have heard that Les Miles was offered 2.9 million, but only 1.8 million was guaranteed. The 2.9 would be paid in full u could say if he got 10 wins every season, beat Ohio State, win Big Ten Championships, and National Championships. When Miles heard that, he decided not to coach. This information came from sources close to the program. Whether some of it's exaggerated I don't know.

WingRG said...

that should be "trust my source", not "try" ... i'm not putting the guy on trial :-)

Kurren said...

I say we just hire Lloyd back... lol

TitleIX said...

Oh joshua. You have restored my faith in manliness. Too bad I can't do math for shit...

but, for all you guys wondering out there, cut refers to the way the facets on the stone are 'cut' allowing for the reflection of light and 'brilliance'. It depends on the depth and diameter of the stone as light going in to the flat facet of the stone (the table)will then bounce on the narrower back side--dependent of course, on the pavillion angle. (oh, physics!)Just like in billiards, a bad angle on the cut and all the light leaks out the back instead of bouncing back out of the stone's table in that dazzling way--or you scratch the cue ball instead of sinking the stripe.

Any shaped stone can have a particular 'cut'
The tricky part is that some people say 'cut', when they mean 'shape' such as round, square, emerald, pear etc. Personally, I'm a fan of ovals because they are symmetrical, and they look bigger because of the elongation without the pointy edges.

Don't forget about the set either, since if you set it too high off the hand, it's likely to catch on things or get in the way.....

mmmmmmm Diamonds

( I wonder if we could get that fire-breathing dragon to eat charcoal and poop diamonds??? )

TitleIX said...

we now return you to your regularly scheduled blogging....

MGoBlue93 said...

Katie, Katie, Katie... I said I wouldn't do it but this, IMHO, is some of the better news to he bounced around. The LA Daily news is reporting Steve Sarkisian is rumored to be a Michigan candidate.

This rumor has so many upsides... he coaches offense -- when was the last time we saw that in A2??? He knows how to recruit SoCal.

I would love to see Sarkisian in Maize and Blue. Blue may lose some games under him. But if Michigan is up in the fourth with 8 minutes to go, Sarkisian won't be trying to milk the clock and hope the defense can hang on for the win.

blakeformichigan said...

Just sit right back and listen
to a tale of a fateful trip
that started in Key Largo
on Captain Billy’s ship
on Captain Billy’s ship

Billy was out sailing
the sun was getting dim
He was unaware that a southern hick
had out-maneuvered him
had out-maneuvered him

The Michigan Man tried to call him
but Billy was beyond approach
If not for his incompetence,
we might have a coach
U of M might have a coach

The search is a disaster
U of M looks like a joke
If things are not corrected
we might get Brady Hoke
we might get…..Brady Hoke

Joshua said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jeff said...

Here's a late night thought -

Scrap the 200 Million in Big House renovations and lure Bill Belichick away from the Pats, for 10 million a year over the next 20 years instead -- and maybe Brady would get bored with winning everything at such a young age and return as QB coach to reign in young gun Mallet.

About as probable as lasting peace in Jerusalem, I know.....