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Wednesday, February 07, 2007

Give It Up Already

After posting my Super Bowl analysis on Friday, I was expecting to get some objections since I sided with the Colts over the Bears. After all, we know we have a number of Chicago readers and people usually cheer for the underdog. And I have no problem with that.

But what I don't understand is all the hatred for Peyton Manning from Michigan fans. And what was the stated reason for the hatred? It's because his fat-ass coach might have voted Michigan #4 in 1997 as some sort of revenge against Charles Woodson beating out Manning for the Heisman, and because many of the obnoxious Tennessee fans have some childish hatred toward Michigan over that 1997 Heisman.

I can understand hating Fulmer (for many reasons other than the unproven voting conspiracy) and many of the Vols fans who still think Manning was robbed in '97. But why hate Manning? Here's a guy who stayed in school - when he would have been a top pick after his junior year - just to enjoy playing college football one more year and living the college life. Here's a guy who's accumulated huge numbers but was never happy unless his team was winning. Here's a guy who's played nearly every snap of his NFL career and is humble in victory. Remember, he wasn't the one who, allegedly, voted Michigan #4, nor did he complain about not winning the Heisman in '97.

So what is it? Is it the way the media gushes over him or his omnipresent TV ads? Is it because he's a socially awkward geek? Because I would think that would make him more endearing to Michigan fans.

If you're still holding it against Peyton Manning that his college coach might be a bit shady and his college fans are unreasonable, I say grow up. Because to hate Manning for that makes you just as obnoxious and immature as the worst Rocky Topper who still hates Michigan almost 10 years after an imagined slight.


Yost said...

Tune in tomorrow when Benny puts up his, "Why I love Troy Smith" post.


Reed said...

I feel like it may have been my comment on the Superbowl pre-game posting that did the most to spark this entry. Re-reading it now, it does appear that my resentment towards Manning stems from the "alleged" Fulmer vote (I put alleged in quotes because who the hell else would have put twice-blown-out Tennessee above us?!? Maaaaaybe it was Osborne, I could see him doing that, much like he didn't want to "ruin" Lawrence Phillips' life, but I doubt it - sorry off on a tangent.) My main animosity towards Manning has more to do with two things prevalent in his game since he's been in the NFL. Firstly, he consistently shows up his head coach during games. It's embarrassing, and he must know what he looks like out there if he ever looks at game film. Secondly, he has often publicly blamed his teammates after big losses. In my opinion, that's not how a quarterback is supposed to behave, humble in victory or not. The Tennessee thing may have started me on this path, and you rightly point out that Manning had nothing to do with that. But it's high time this guy grew up and started acting like a man.

DW said...

Yes! thank you for putting into writing what I've been thinking the past few years.

Another weird phenomena I have noticed is that Michigan fans LOVE Tom Brady (duh, he's dreamy) and like the rivalry between the Colts and Patriots, so when they play, they cheer for Tom. This has translated into hating Peyton when they play anybody, not just the Patriots.

Peyton is the best in the league and doesn't tell you about it... we need more like him.

Brian said...

I am a Michigan fan, who lives in Nashville. (Almost) everything in this state revolves around the UT Vols, and how Peyton was the greatest thing that happened to college football. The funny thing is, it was Tee Martin who won the national championship at QB for UT, not Peyton. That's one thing I don't understand.
Plus, people down here STILL haven't gotten over the Heisman situation.
Seeing UT fans every day will make you want to root against everything associated with them, and that usually means against Peyton in the Super Bowl. Granted, he is a quality guy and raises the standard of players in the NFL, I'll give you that.

Out of Conference said...

I tend to hold the way his entire family handled the Eli draft day fiasco against Peyton- maybe unfairly- he did afterall support a member of his family. He is good. I'll give him that, but I'm with Reed on his showing up his coaches and publicly criticizing team mates.
Regardling Tee Martin getting the NAt'l Championship, but not being very revered, I personally haven't compared their collegiate QB stats, but isn't Tee Marting not getting due credit for the MNC akin to Brad Johnson not getting due credit for his Super Bowl win?!? Montana, Farve, Brady, Elway- all won their Super Bowls, all Johnson did was he didn't lose his. Same with Tee Martin's MNC (if my memory serves me).

Out of Conference said...

Oh and Benny - when do we see your, "Peyton, there's so many ways I want to say.. I love you." on YouTube?

Go Blue Gabe said...

I understand what you're saying OOC, but in that case Peyton "Lost" his. I don't really think that the Vols were that much improved one year after Manning graduated to have to move from "the QB doing it all" up to "the QB just not losing it. I'm not saying Tee is better than Peyton, I'm saying that Peyton has a propensity to choke. Granted he won this year and congrats to him. But look at the playoffs. His Superbowl was in the AFC Championship. Nothing against the Bears, but the NFC was just weak this year. Peyton choked in the first round of the playoffs this year, and I hate to admit it because I'm a Chiefs fan, but the Chiefs choked worse. I've never seen such a predictable offense. HA HA, this turned out a lot longer than I intended.
I just think that PM gets a lot more credit than is do. I know he just won a superbowl, but I still wouldn't take him over Montana, Elway, Brady, Young, Aikman, Bradshaw, Staubach etc.

Anonymous said...

seems like sexually assaulting/harassing a female trainer is a good reason to dislike manning... i don't think the neanderthaloid element in college football (see gary barnett and katie hnida) really needs any more encouragement.

Anonymous said...

if Tennessee and Peyton don't get spanked in the 1998 Orange Bowl by Nebraska 42-17, then we end up with the full national title.

MGoBlue93 said...

Since the NFL draft is approaching, how about a thread about that as well (and when signing day is over)?

We could talk about who is the most overrated going in -- Brady Guinn, who will be this year's Marques Colston Needle in a Haystack award winner and who's career will be doomed before it even starts when they get selected in the first round by the Lions?

Ben said...

Benny, I'll give you a chance to remember Peyton's reaction to Woodson's name being announced at the Heisman ceremony.

In his contempt lives enough reason to hate for a lifetime.

Out of Conference said...

Go Blue Gabe - no disagreements here. Good post.

surrounded in columbus said...

Benny, et al,
it's not just M fans who dislike Peyton. we may have started sooner ('97- w/ exception of FLA fans who had a 4 yr headstart on us) but there's a large body of sports fans who diss him for most of the same reasons.

Fat Fill Fulmer aside, the Heisman whining/reaction is a good place to start. we've all worked w/, gone to school w/, or other wise had to deal w/ the "richie rich" kid who always acted like he was entitled to things the rest of us knew we had to earn. Peyton's public personna falls right in that category. he thought he was owed the Heisman, not because of what he did on the field that year (which wasn't much) but because he skipped a year in the nfl to win it.

he also seems to carry himself that way in the nfl. when the steelers pasted him last season, you didn't hear him take responsibility for not making the right reads, missing the hot receivers, or failing to make the correct audibles. no- he threw the o line under the bus and blamed it all on "protection problems".

the colts' losses were always somebody else's mistakes. even during the super bowl you could see him throwing hissy fits when receivers ran "the wrong" routes.

point is he's grown up hearing how great he is, and he carries himself that way, on the sidelines and in interviews. most of us have had to grit out for ourselves what we may have. we typically have disdain for the entitled who have it handed to them, and by & large, Peyton appears to fall into that category.

maybe now that he's won a ring (in something) he'll stop blaming others and be more comfortable stepping up.

Anonymous said...


"not because of what he did on the field that year (which wasn't much)"...

My guess is that you don't want to be taken seriously as a living, thinking human being with comments like that. Try 3800 yds, 37 TDs. Kids' stuff, right?

Fact is that Manning DID deserve the Heisman that year; anybody who knows ANYTHING knows that much, unless you happen to live in Michigan, or really think that novelty kick returners are more valuable than quarterbacks.

Humorous that Vince Young gets a free pass for doing the same thing (whining about not winning the Heisman) last year, and even more so when you consider that he actually wasn't the best player in the country. In Manning's case, he really was.

But, don't let any of these facts keep you from being bitter, pathetic little people.

surrounded in columbus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
surrounded in columbus said...

bitter, pathetic little people? yeah. that's us. cruising on some other team's website posting anon. ooops. that's you, isn't it?

and "facts"?
never beat FLA, never won the big bowl, same team won everything w/ a different QB.

there's facts, and there's stats. Peyton Place had nice stats. but that's not wins ball games, huh?

BTW- there are also very few heisman voters in michigan. apparently, a lot of them saw the same facts.

BTWT- it's people like you that give anon posting its bad rep.

Anonymous said...

Peyton did beat OSU in the bowl game his senior year (OSU had Hoying, George, Glenn and Pace). I believe that qualifies as a big bowl win (although that was after the Heisman was presented).

btw: i'm not the anon that posted earlier, just jumping into the discussion.

Anonymous said...

I would love to see proof of or links to Vince Young's "whining" about not winning the Heisman. The kid was embarrassed he didn't win the trophy for his University and hometown, but never bitched about the voting or said he should have won or said Reggie didn't deserve it or that he was better. How does his embarrassment about failing = whining about losing?

Jim said...

I've always been a fan of both Tom and Peyton. And maybe we just see what we want to see, but...

How does he show up his head coach? He's certainly animated after bad plays, but is he carrying on about the coach's calls? Another poster implies his "hissy fits" were about receivers running the wrong routes. Maybe you all read lips better than I do. I was always assuming he was being hard on himself.

Were there really that many instances where Peyton tried to shift blame? I remember the famous one from last year, but that was in response to a question specifically about the protection (I believe). It's not like they asked him why they lost the game and he responded by throwing the o-line under the bus. When that incident played out, I don't remember anyone saying, "See, there he goes again." In the comments I've heard, Peyton has always been quick to shift credit, not so much the blame. I'm not a Colts fan, though, so I don't pay much attention outside of big games (playoffs or otherwise).

And lets not trash his performance record too much. He was 3-1 in Bowl games. He may not be Tom Brady in the clutch, but how many other pro quarterbacks in the last 9 years have won that many more "big" games. Brad Johnson? Troy Dilfer? Kurt Warner? If you remember, John Elway couldn't win the big one either...until he did.

And are we really going to write him off as a spoiled rich kid who's had everything handed to him? By all accounts, Peyton practices harder and studies longer than anyone in the League.

Maybe it's all in the eye of the beholder, but I look at Peyton and see a right guy, a hard-worker and a deserving champion.

Anonymous said...

Vince Young didnt deserve the Heisman ? Wasnt the best player in the country? hmmmm... so who was? Who set the bar at their position like he did? 2500/1000 was the stat to get to and not only did he set it, but he also shot past it to 3000/1000.


katherine said...

"Fact is that Manning DID deserve the Heisman that year; anybody who knows ANYTHING knows that much, unless you happen to live in Michigan, or really think that novelty kick returners are more valuable than quarterbacks."

This deserves the award for the DUMBEST comment of 2007. I don't think it's possible, even though the year has barely begun, to have a dumber comment. Yes, I'm that confident.

I don't know if you're referring to Desmond Howard or Charles Woodson (most likely), but novelty neither of them were. You try and name me another 5'10'' 170 lb. receiver other than Desmond Howard who had the type of impact on his team like he did with 19 receiving TDs...the 4 punt return TDs were a bonus, not quite a novelty punt returner...idiot. Tell the '96 Packers that a punt returner is a novelty gig and that Howard didn't deserve the MVP.

Okay, so you were talking about Woodson. NOVELTY PUNT RETURNER? Seriously, I hate to rude (okay that's a lie), but I'm questioning your ability to formulate even the simplest of cognitive thoughts. He was an amazing DB who had the ability to shut down an entire side of the field...corners don't do that nowadays which makes his efforts look even great now. His receiving and punt return duties were also a bonus, but not his main role. Basically, if I can make a reference to how Manning was in college, he was like Brady Quinn. Stat padder who didn't win many if any big games. Big time players win big time games...Woodson did that, Peyton didn't.

So let's say Peyton Manning goes into the Nebraska game and has an amazing game even with a loss, proving all of the critics wrong and that he should've won the Heisman. Did that happen? No. Not at all. 1 TD, 130-some yards, sub 70% when SCOTT FROST is showing you up and goes 75%, 125 yds and runs for 60yds...sorry but that's not Heisman worthy.

surrounded in columbus said...

Anon 12:26,
i think he beat tosu in his jr year. didn't he lose to Nebraska in the Orange at end of '97 season?

i understand that he has a lot of fans, and that more than a fair number of people really like him. Madison Ave wouldn't have him selling stuff if they didn't. hell, i even like the "you're my favorite accountant" line.

as to his real character,your points are all well taken- i don't read lips, can't speak for certain as to his real persona, etc. i only can guess by what i see, and what i read other places. i may be incorrect. that said, so might you. both camps have plenty of members.

but the original post by Benny was that michigan fans who didn't like him were basically inbred hill jacks (or something like that- i don't have Benny's post up on the screen). i disagree (at the risk of being struck by a bolt or worse, banned from future commenting :)!).

my point is that there are a lot of sports fans who don't like Peyton for a lot of reasons beyond Fat Fill Fulmer & the '97 coaches poll. right or wrong, i don't feel particularly backwards for thinking negatively about him (though i recognize that most backwards people don't realize they're backwards, so i wouldn't probably notice if i was....).

Anonymous said...

No. It's because of his stupid baby brother.